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Old 05-18-2007, 11:08 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Question Lighter Bows?

The other day I somehow sprained my right hand (thumb/index area muscle). It hurt when I picked up the phone, moved my hand abruptly or used one of my Bows for a long time, in a certain position or made sudden movements with the Bow.

Wednesday evening I switched between my Lipkins/142gr and Balint/146gr Bows to see which I could use with less pain. The Lipkins was easier to use even though I preferred the fuller tone of the Balint Bow. Yesterday I picked up the lightest Bow which is an old French Bow made at least 75 years ago which is only 126 grams but plays well. I tried this out in the office and then took it to rehearsal along with my Lipkins. I used the Old French Bow for the first half and then switched to the Lipkins after the break. After a few minutes I went back to the Old Bow because suddenly the Lipkins felt heavy in my hand due to my sprain. I thought it would be easier with a normal weighted Bow to bow easily with the weight of the Bow rather than use the lighter Bow and dig in more when needed to pull sound. When I switched back to the lighter Bow, my hand felt better. The Lipkins does sound a little bigger and better but my hand needs some rest before going back to my regular Bows.

Have any of you guys/gals out there had this experience with a lighter Bow over a great classic or master Bow and still got thru it just as well?

Last edited by Ken Smith; 05-27-2007 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Just found out the Bow is actually French so I changed the refrence to French instead of German.
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:09 AM
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I think mine is pretty light...I'll weigh it when I see it next.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:05 AM
Nick Hart Nick Hart is offline
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Ken -

I come from a "school" of playing where the belief is in heavy bows. We actually tend to to add weight to our bows with silver tips and heavier silver screws. I like a nice heavy bow (I'm a German bow player) but I can understand what you mean by light bows. This one girl here has this nice Pfretzshner, and it's a really light bow and I can still draw the same sound so why not. Some people even argue that lighter bows are better for the sound, because to get the ideal sound you don't want to add weight or pressure to the top, you want to horizontally pull your sound out - similar to a pizzicato.

-Nick
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:39 AM
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Cool Lighter or Heavier..

Balance is more important then weight itself. My 152gr bow is actually lighter in feel than my 146gr bow. That is because of the Balance point alone.

Some Basses or some strings sound better with some Bows and not as good with others. When I get a Bass set-up and ready to play I try several of my Bows on it to see which one feels and sounds better combined. I also try various techniques to test the sound pulled by the Bow alone and then play both sitting and standing which alters the angle and weight in which the Bow sits on the String.

Then I choose the Bow that fits that Bass the way it is currently strung. If I use different Strings, the test starts all over again. If you only own one Bow, you test it with your Bass and string choice.

The Bass I used the lighter Bow with is a newly set up 1978 Pollmann with Belcanto strings. It has a new thick fingerboard with a Graphite Bar in the Neck beneath it. The Bass plays smoothly and with ease. If it was a tighter feel, I doubt the lighter Bow would work.

On the better Bow thing, usually my best Bow sounds best with any Bass but some of the other Bows work almost equal with lighter tensioned Basses.
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Old 05-26-2007, 09:57 PM
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Lightbulb My Light Bow

I sent this Bow to Sue Lipkins a few days ago for a re-hair and evaluation and commented after examining the Bow the work looked to be of the Mirecourt School and not German as previously thought.

So, what does this mean? Well, playability wise not much but value wise it's a big plus. I think German made French Bows on average sell for about half or less than a similar period French made Bow. For one, they are usually better with the exception of a few old makers but style wise, the French-French design is usually preferred.

I knew this was a nice Bow but had trouble matching up the style, Stick, Head and Frog to any of the German makers that I knew of. Now this makes sense. Also, looking under the Frog it has two notches ( // )in both the Stick and Frog lining. This means that it is a shop bow of some sort made in a batch or possibly 4-6 Bows or so if not more as far as fitting the Frog-to-stick part. The only trouble is that I have never in my life seen a Frog of that size before. Besides the Frog being only about 25mm tall, the top of the Stick is all round with only the part under the Frog Lining being *octagonal (*3 of the 8 sides).
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:59 PM
Michael Ryle Michael Ryle is offline
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FWIW, my first teacher was Edgar Meyer's father, Ed Sr. I used to play with him in the bass section of the Knoxville (Tennessee) Symphony, and one evening we were at a rehearsal and he handed me bow and said, "Here, try this. Doesn't that feel the way a bow ought to feel?" I tried the bow, and it did feel great. It make the strings speak beautifully, and was almost like bowing air. The bow was extremely lightweight and moved across the strings with almost no resistance. I don't know exactly how much it weighed, but I do know that I can't remember ever using a bow, before or since, that felt as light or played as easily as that one. Ed told me the bow belonged to his son, the now famous Edgar Meyer, and I don't know this for certain but I have the feeling that it may have been the one that Edgar is using now.
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Old 07-22-2007, 08:35 PM
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Default heavy bows

I recently stumbled upon some advocates of longer and heavier bows for bass. These are bows that are 80 cm long and weigh 200 grams or more. Has anyone tried anything like that? My heaviest bow is in the mid 140's.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Powell View Post
I recently stumbled upon some advocates of longer and heavier bows for bass. These are bows that are 80 cm long and weigh 200 grams or more. Has anyone tried anything like that? My heaviest bow is in the mid 140's.

There's a bassist in my orchestra that uses a French bow made by Hietbrink, I think. It's made of South American ironwood, swarti-something or another. It is really, really heavy and much longer than a normal bow. You can probably club someone to death with it.

I've played it a few times. It produces a prodigious amount of sound compared to my bow, probably because it is so heavy that it plays the string by itself. If you're always saying, "Use your arm weight and bow weight only, and no muscles" to rookies asking about playing the French bow, this is the bow for you. ......

The bow is pretty stiff, and is balanced decently for such a heavy and long bow. It's a very well made bow as it should be.

But otherwise, this is a bow like none other. You can pick up any normal bow (regular size and weight range) and still play it like you normally would. With this bow, you'll be fighting to even hold it normally because of its immense weight and size. Then when you start playing, you'll have to get used to the bow before you can try anything fancy.

All in all, you'll have to spend a lot of time playing the bow to get used to it. After that, you will probably be playing it normally. However, I would imagine that quicker passages will be a good deal harder with it. And with its massive inertia, so will quick and/or frequent string crossings.

I suppose that you can try out a longer and heavier bow to see if you like how it feels. But personally, I would not advocate using one.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:52 PM
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Thanks for the information. That is one of the makers I've heard of that makes them and that is definitely the wood also. I'd like to try a somewhat heavier German bow. I think it might worth a shot. Sometimes I feel like I'm working too hard. I guess the ideal weight is somewhere between power and control / agility. I think that same maker was also making German models.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:08 AM
jordan oconnor jordan oconnor is offline
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Default Similiar but different...

Similar to what Ken mentioned, in regards to his wrist, I hurt my wrist some years ago. This wasn't too much of an issue until recently, when I began to play with a bow, which is when I noticed my weakness.

Personally I did think about getting a heavy bow, because I thought it might help to have a bow that did "more work", but I have gone the other direction; I play German and have 3 bows, the heaviest is 126grams (Ary500) and the lightest is 113grams (Prochownik). The middle bow has the fullest sound weighing in at 122grams (Prochownik), the lightest has the best contact or grab to the string and the lesser priced Ary is a great bow for the money and has served me well.

My question is, since my lightest bow has the best grab or contact and the next bow up, the 122grm bow has the fullest sound, it seems that weight is not a definitive answer to the matter of volume or, for that matter, making a solid, easy, fluid connection with the string. Obviously heavy bows have a strong presence with the string and personally I have tried great, wonderfully heavy Snakewood bows that are awesome in this regard, (and want to get one oneday) however I wonder what some of the other factors are in regards to volume, to connecting with the string, to bouncing the bow and so on?

What role does, not only different kinds of wood and thus, weight, play but different grades of wood? Does the age of the wood, or the way the wood was aged factor in? When some one makes a bow do they have a certain function in mind; in how the bow will sound or feel or stick to the string? In how it will bounce and so on? Is the art of bow making the quest to balance or conform a variety of elements within the perfect stick?

Thanks for your insight...
Jordan
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Old 08-15-2007, 12:47 PM
Johnny Layton Johnny Layton is offline
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Overall I like a lighter bow. I think I have better control and draw a more pleasing sound than I do with heavier bows, and they're easier for me to bounce which I like to work on doing a lot. My light one is about 126 g's.

I once played a snakewood bow when I was shopping that felt pretty heavy and it put out a pretty neat sound...almost want to call it "dark chocolate" or something equally confusing. If I ever decide to throw the cash down for another bow I'll probably get one of those.
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