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Old 08-19-2010, 01:40 PM
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Eric Swanson Eric Swanson is offline
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Default Positive rebuild or restoration stories

I know a tiny bit about some of the restorations that Ken has sponsored and made happen, and the many basses he has brought back to life. I certainly don't know all of the stories; I know he has given a lot of work to several luthiers and made a lot of basses sing better than ever before.

Ken currently has an expose thread going about the cheesy, illegal, and unscrupulous things that a few luthiers have done. Its good information to have out there, to be sure.

On the other hand, there are some talented, scrupulous luthiers doing beautiful work these days. Does anybody have positive, successful, major rebuild stories to share? With either a modest bass (like mine) or some of the less modest instruments that many of you have?

Here's my thread on a positive experience with Jed Kriegel and his work:
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showt...0039#post20039

I would be interested to hear more stories from luthiers and/or bassists where instruments were drastically improved, transformed, rebuilt, and/or restored...
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:26 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Thumbs up ok, ok..

Let me break the ice here. First off, I will limit my posting to more affordable type basses under the 30k mark just to make it a bit closer to the heart of the majority rather then a select few.

One bass I brought in awhile back was a modern English bass. It seemed ok but after the first winter it started to open up around the lower Top seam. This was a warning that the wood needed to acclimate here, not across the Pond. I took it to Arnold, he popped the Top off in my presence and then the bass sat for months, apart and drying out. Once all was clear the Back braces were removed and a single x/cross-brace was put in with another smaller lower angled bar shaped more like a mini bassbar. Bridge and fingerboard were needed as well so that was done after all else was handled. That bass sounded pretty good at the start but after a year of settling, it was even better.

Another bass I brought in around the same time was in need of a full set-up with Fingerboard and bridge etc.. Nick Lloyd was over here for a visit with Dr. Phil (Maneri) shopping for a bass to take home, the big German Orchestra bass I hosted for a friend here locally. I showed Nick an old Italian bass I had that needed a full restoration and agreed to take it on. Then he asked if I had a bass that needed less work like a set-up or something because he could take back 2 basses of mine in the car. I showed him this other modern Italian that needed the set-up work so he picked it up.

A half season later when winter hit, the Back started to give where it had been repaired before. Nick mentioned it needed to come off and be done. So, it ended up with the exact same brace system that Arnold did as Arnold sent him pics of the modern English bass of mine that he had restored earlier. When it came back it was mush smoother and deeper sounding than before. Now that it's been here a year of so it is sounding fantastic.

These two basses were repaired with a new method of Back bracing for flatbacks that is not the traditional way. It is not always the way to go but in the case of these two basses, it seems the right way. The proof is in the results.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Adrian Levi Adrian Levi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Let me break the ice here. First off, I will limit my posting to more affordable type basses under the 30k mark just to make it a bit closer to the heart of the majority rather then a select few.

One bass I brought in awhile back was a modern English bass. It seemed ok but after the first winter it started to open up around the lower Top seam. This was a warning that the wood needed to acclimate here, not across the Pond. I took it to Arnold, he popped the Top off in my presence and then the bass sat for months, apart and drying out. Once all was clear the Back braces were removed and a single x/cross-brace was put in with another smaller lower angled bar shaped more like a mini bassbar. Bridge and fingerboard were needed as well so that was done after all else was handled. That bass sounded pretty good at the start but after a year of settling, it was even better.

Another bass I brought in around the same time was in need of a full set-up with Fingerboard and bridge etc.. Nick Lloyd was over here for a visit with Dr. Phil (Maneri) shopping for a bass to take home, the big German Orchestra bass I hosted for a friend here locally. I showed Nick an old Italian bass I had that needed a full restoration and agreed to take it on. Then he asked if I had a bass that needed less work like a set-up or something because he could take back 2 basses of mine in the car. I showed him this other modern Italian that needed the set-up work so he picked it up.

A half season later when winter hit, the Back started to give where it had been repaired before. Nick mentioned it needed to come off and be done. So, it ended up with the exact same brace system that Arnold did as Arnold sent him pics of the modern English bass of mine that he had restored earlier. When it came back it was mush smoother and deeper sounding than before. Now that it's been here a year of so it is sounding fantastic.

These two basses were repaired with a new method of Back bracing for flatbacks that is not the traditional way. It is not always the way to go but in the case of these two basses, it seems the right way. The proof is in the results.
Do you have any pics of the back bracing by any chance ? I'm trying to visualize a single X back brace .....
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:09 PM
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I think that Ken is talking about half of an X. If that's true, you can see part of a similar brace through my f hole photo (for what its worth).

http://www.smithbassforums.com/attac...1&d=1282666138
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Old 08-24-2010, 02:08 PM
Sam Sherry Sam Sherry is offline
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Well, if nobody's truly going I suppose I'll take a whack.

Around 2000 I got a bass on trade from my pal Glenn. Lovely old Czech bass with a label of "Alois Bittner" from the early 20th. The bass was in many pieces and Glenn, a bass-player who ran a piano-repair shop, promised to put it back together. And he did, but it fell apart again. So Glenn said he'd "really fix it" and boy, he did. And it was a nice sounding bass -- quite the cannon for its modest size.

Fast forward about five years. There's now some buzzy things happening so I brought the bass to the Uptons. And they deeply regret to inform me that Glenn had "really fixed" the Bittner by gluing everything together with EPOXY. The bass may buzz a bit but it could probably float across a pond without sinking.

I decided to invest the effort in having the Uptons remove all the epoxy and restore the bass properly. Their photo-essay is here. Uncounted blades were ground down by that goop, friends. But at the end, the bass was in one piece and sounding better than ever.

Post-script: I ran into Glenn some months later. "How about that epoxy?" I sez. He looked a little sheepish, then he said, "Give it up! How many good years did you get out of that thing anyway?" That was the end of our last conversation.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:54 PM
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Eric Swanson Eric Swanson is offline
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There was a real epoxy craze, at least in my high-end residential, non-luthiery woodworking world, starting about 20 years ago. Folks discovered it and started using it for EVERYTHING. Happily, the fad has faded a bit in the past 10 years, or so.

I have seen more than a few ill-conceived epoxy ventures. Sam, this certainly sounds like one of them.

There are hundreds of varieties of epoxy and folks sometimes use specific epoxies for purposes for which they are not intended, or appropriate. Troubles start there...

For example, in my trade, West System came into vogue and everyone got the idea to use it in exterior work. But straight West System's viscosity is ill-suited to joinery; it was designed as a clear boat finish, actually. When a person reads the manufacturer's recommendations, West should ideally be used with a thickening agent, on abraded joints (as in roughed up with 100 grit sand paper). I have seen several well-intended epoxy joints fail because folks used low-viscosity, brittle epoxies, with no fillers, with high pressure clamping, creating glue-starved joints. Things that were carefully fit and glued just sort of fall apart, because the adhesives properties weren't well understood.

Sam, its great that the folks at Upton were able to take the curse off of your bass! Do you still have it, or has it gone on in this world?
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Old 08-25-2010, 03:03 PM
Sam Sherry Sam Sherry is offline
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The Bittner was a wonderful bass which opened doors for me musically. It has a combination of sonic refinement and edge that is rare.

I miss it. I decided that I should not own a fragile old instrument.

I like my current bass OK and it is SO reliable. It's probably not the last instrument I will own, but I am happy to play it tonight.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:43 PM
Steve Alcott Steve Alcott is offline
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I'm with you there, Sam. The guys at David Gage's shop kept my Olde Tyrolean going for the 35 years of my ownership, including two accident-related major rebuilds. The bass came back better each time, and when I sold it, I was very pleased with the price I got. I now play a really nice Shen Rogeri (thanks, Arnold) and don't sweat it so much at 2AM on the subway the way I used to. It's a perfect instrument for the work I do.
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