Rattles and adjustments

[stan haskins]

Hi everyone -

This is my first winter with a carved bass. I've noticed that I needed to adjust the bridge upward to move the strings away from the fingerboard three times already (the third time was this last weekend). I would estimate that the adjusters are extended out about 1- 1.5 cm now. I tried to adjust the bass and treble sides equally, However, the G string seems to need alot more adjustment than the E string. I want to bring the E string back down a bit - is it dangerous, illegal, or amoral to have the bridge adjusted "unevenly"?

ALso, along with this problem, I've developed a rattle. I'm pretty sure it originates from the tailpiece cable (where the cable attaches to the TP). It's very irritating, and especially loud around the low B on the A string.

Thanks for any response,
Stan

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

Hi everyone -

This is my first winter with a carved bass. I've noticed that I needed to adjust the bridge upward to move the strings away from the fingerboard three times already (the third time was this last weekend). I would estimate that the adjusters are extended out about 1- 1.5 cm now. I tried to adjust the bass and treble sides equally, However, the G string seems to need alot more adjustment than the E string. I want to bring the E string back down a bit - is it dangerous, illegal, or amoral to have the bridge adjusted "unevenly"?

ALso, along with this problem, I've developed a rattle. I'm pretty sure it originates from the tailpiece cable (where the cable attaches to the TP). It's very irritating, and especially loud around the low B on the A string.

Thanks for any response,
Stan

First off, the Back moves the most over the seasons. It's common to have lower Bridge height in the winter months and higher height in the Summer. The adjustable bridge is there for just this reason. Uneven side to side adjustments are not uncommon. Two other things can be going on here, at least. One, when you raise the bridge to meet the rising fingerboard due to the shrinking back, you are making the bridge higher on the top thus putting more pressure on the table. That may be pushing the top down unevenly under the Bass bar or soundpost sides of the bridge feet. Two, now that the back has slightly shrunk and the top is being pressed down more from the raised bridge, the soundpost may be too long or in the wrong position, OR, this being is a new Bass, the Back may have swelled out from the soundpost pushing it as the Bass settles in. The Shen Willow is a modified Flat/arched back with a special X-brace. All Basses settle in over time. Even in the case of Basses 100-200 years old, they move throughout the seasons as well.

So, do not be overly alarmed BUT do NOT ignore signs that your Bass is 'yearning' for attention. A player can only do so much by himself. Your Bass needs to go to a Bass Luthier like yesterday to be 'winterized'. Find the best guy you can even if you have to travel. I would suggest Arnold or Jeff as they are both a good 'drive' from you but that's where I go and I live in Pa.!

The rattle, might be minor BUT again, do not assume.

I have learned that people often take better care of their Cars than they do of their personal health issues like regular check-ups and such. With Basses, it is usually much much worse. Yes, there are some 'minor' league luthiers out there ready to carve your Bass up with their invented methods but then again, there are some top Pros that are no less in their field than a brain surgeon or Root C**** Specialist is in theirs in my opinion.

Get some 'professional' help with this and your Bass will live a better life and a lot longer.

How can one tell the difference between the Major and minor leaguers in the Luthier business? See who the Pro Symphony guys uses 'regularly' with their 50k-200k Basses. You will see guys traveling past several other 'average' type luthier's shops to get their Bass worked on no matter how long the drive or how long the wait. Why? Because they don't want their 'pride and joy' screwed up by some wannabe that the 'average high end' Bass they work on is a Juzek!

Go the extra mile and pay the extra dollars to get it done right and the first time as well. Second time's a biatch!

[stan haskins]

Point well taken, Ken - I'm not planning on using the same bargain basement luthier for my bass as I would for, say, my flea-market purchased banjo. HOwever, I don't think these problems are serious enough to call for an emergency visit to Mr. Bollbach's shop right now. (I am planning on doing a Maintainance visit in the spring or early summer, though)

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

How can one tell the difference between the Major and minor leaguers in the Luthier business? See who the Pro Symphony guys uses 'regularly' with their 50k-200k Basses. You will see guys traveling past several other 'average' type luthier's shops to get their Bass worked on no matter how long the drive or how long the wait. Why? Because they don't want their 'pride and joy' screwed up by some wannabe that the 'average high end' Bass they work on is a Juzek!

Ken, Excellent advice and helpful explanation of how a bass changes with the seasons.
I'm sure this may cause disagreement, but in some areas the guy setting up basses for symphony players may not do as nice a setup if the player is playing jazz as a luthier specializing in that market. In my area there is a tendency for the jazz guys to to to one shop and the symphony players to go to the other.
I agree, it's essential that anyone working on a bass have years of experience and training and know what they are doing.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Greg Clinkingbeard

Ken, Excellent advice and helpful explanation of how a bass changes with the seasons.
I'm sure this may cause disagreement, but in some areas the guy setting up basses for symphony players may not do as nice a setup if the player is playing jazz as a luthier specializing in that market. In my area there is a tendency for the jazz guys to to to one shop and the symphony players to go to the other.
I agree, it's essential that anyone working on a bass have years of experience and training and know what they are doing.

All the guys I have used in the past do work for all types of players. Music is not written in just one Key. A guy only able to set-up a Bass one way should find another Job!

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I understand what you're saying, but that's where you live. In KC it's a bit more specialized, not that the 'Symphony' shop doesn't do very nice work. From what I've seen here and from local reputation, the other place is a bit better for the jazz guys. KC may be the exception.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Greg Clinkingbeard

I understand what you're saying, but that's where you live. In KC it's a bit more specialized, not that the 'Symphony' shop doesn't do very nice work. From what I've seen here and from local reputation, the other place is a bit better for the jazz guys. KC may be the exception.

I have seen quite a varied preference of height, width and arch from both Orchestral and Jazz players. I will venture to say that there is no such thing as a Jazz or Classical set-up at all but rather just preferred set-up Specs.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I have seen quite a varied preference of height, width and arch from both Orchestral and Jazz players. I will venture to say that there is no such thing as a Jazz or Classical set-up at all but rather just preferred set-up Specs.

It looks to me like we are back into semantics again.

[Ken Smith]

On the Rattles, would that be 'one Snake or two'?

[stan haskins]

I was doing some recording last night with the Shen. The rattle has gotten incredibly irritating, so after about an hour I put a folded up washcloth between the tailpiece and the top. No more rattle! I guess that means the rattle is coming from my TP cable . . .

While there is a certain "muting " effect from the cloth, I found that in some ways, it evened out the tone (the A string is less wolfy, the open G not as abrasive). I did lose a little bit of volume, but the sound was better on the video, and it seemed like I was playing easier, too, by not needing to avoid rough-sounding notes.

Any thoughts? Does anybody intentionally mute their tailpiece?

[Jeff Tranauskas]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

I was doing some recording last night with the Shen. The rattle has gotten incredibly irritating, so after about an hour I put a folded up washcloth between the tailpiece and the top. No more rattle! I guess that means the rattle is coming from my TP cable . . .

While there is a certain "muting " effect from the cloth, I found that in some ways, it evened out the tone (the A string is less wolfy, the open G not as abrasive). I did lose a little bit of volume, but the sound was better on the video, and it seemed like I was playing easier, too, by not needing to avoid rough-sounding notes.

Any thoughts? Does anybody intentionally mute their tailpiece?

Stan,
I had a Shen 3/4 Willow that did the same thing. I muted the tailpiece with an old Tshirt. That worked well. On my Bulgarian bass I do the same thing. The rattle in my current tailpiece is due to my use of an electrical terminal block to anchor the cable. It was an adhoc repair that I made that never was properly addressed. So for now I just use the rolled up cotton cloth to quite the rattle. I have seen Edgar Meyer do the same thing.

[stan haskins]

Yeah, that's cool, but I found out soon afterward that I was losing ALOT of volume. I mean, ALOT. When palying in a small room, recording with a handy-cam, I didn't notice how much power adn volume i lost with that simple fix. Later, I went to play in a black box theater (big dead room - solo, for fun) and found out I was basically inaudible with the tailpiece mute. Same setting next night, took out the washcloth, and I could fill the room again. I can live with the rattle - I'm too proud of loud and aggressive sound. But it's certainly a good trick to remember for small rooms, or with amplification . . .

From what I understand, Edgar always plays closely mic'd and heavily amplified. His recorded tone is incredible, I've yet to see him live. But that might explain how he gets away with that muted tailpiece.

I've seen lots of bassists and cellists with a rag stuffed in their tailpiece lately - I think their instruments might be louder than mine though.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

I've seen lots of bassists and cellists with a rag stuffed in their tailpiece lately - I think their instruments might be louder than mine though.

I know several players who sweat a lot who keep a cloth there for wiping the sweat off the neck and maybe off themselves. I agree with Stan about the volume loss. I've yet to see a rattle that couldn't be cured without stuffing rags or other objects between the tailpiece and the top.

[stan haskins]

Well, after the change of seasons (the end of the bass's first winter), all the above-mentioned problems have gone away! There is height between the strings and FB (I could finally lower teh bridge adjusters this week), plenty of tension across all the strings, and a big sound under the bow again. The rattle is gone, too. This bass is like a totally different instrument between the summer and winter.

I suppose I should really take it to a luthier in the winter this year to get it winterized. I suppose It'll need a winter post to make it playable year-round.