Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

Go Back   Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB) > Double Basses > This Old Bass > French Bass School

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2007, 06:53 PM
Charles Federle Charles Federle is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 07-25-2007
Location: Denton, Texas
Posts: 28
Charles Federle is on a distinguished road
Default Xavier Jacquet ?

When I first bought this bass it was advertised as a 1746 Mougenout. That idea has been dismissed, but now it is though of as possible an Xavier Jacquet or at least that school of making. I am curious to see what opinions everyone else has on it. Without a label it has been a bit of a mystery bass but I have considered myself lucky to have it.

Measurements
Body length 44 1/8"
Upper Bout 15 1/2"
Middle Bout 14 7/8"
Lower Bout 26 7/8"
String Length 42"
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0065.jpg
Views:	1406
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	298  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0068.jpg
Views:	2216
Size:	56.9 KB
ID:	299  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0077.jpg
Views:	1042
Size:	22.5 KB
ID:	300  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0080.jpg
Views:	1592
Size:	70.9 KB
ID:	301  Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0073.jpg
Views:	1455
Size:	55.6 KB
ID:	302  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0074.jpg
Views:	1475
Size:	113.9 KB
ID:	303  

Last edited by Charles Federle; 07-31-2007 at 09:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-31-2007, 09:12 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Nice..

Interesting Bass and beautiful wood. I have not seen any other Jacquet Basses that look like that. Most have been Gamba shape and one I have seen on-line in the UK is slightly different but not quite like yours either.

Here it is;



Most French Basses do not have an upper angle bend. That is more of an Italian thing as far back as Maggini and d'Salo. It has been copied and used in England and Germany as well but rare on French Basses.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-06-2007, 07:28 PM
Charles Federle Charles Federle is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 07-25-2007
Location: Denton, Texas
Posts: 28
Charles Federle is on a distinguished road
Default

My bass has always been a bit hard to track down. Though I have looked at the one you posted up here and I almost wonder if the shoulders of mine might have been cut down. I don't think so, but was a passing thought. What I have found that is a rather similar to mine though is this Gand Jacquet.

http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrume...1895/Gand.html

I see the similarities mostly in the scroll and top. Hopefully one day the mystery will be a bit closer to being solved, but the speculation is some of the fun with this bass
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-11-2007, 11:19 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool another old Frenchy...



with this caption under the pics; Vend Contrebasse Pillement (Père). Les bois sont estimés de 1640. Entièrement restaurée. Fabriquée dans l'atelier de Guarnerius Del Gesu avec ses bois lors de sa résidence Ã* Cremone.
Contrebasse très puissante, avec un grave très généreux et un timbre particulier. Magnifiques mécaniques. Vernis chaleureux.

If he is saying that
Pillement (Père) is from 1640, then he is at least 100-150 years too early. (edit) I checked my Book and he worked from 1775 - 1820 in Mirecourt. The Paris thing was made up by him but never worked there. Here is another Pillement (Père) c.1790, 150 years later.

The two Basses however look completely different in every thing from the model, the FF, the shoulders and even the varnish. WOB had another Pillement just like the link shows a few years ago in a reddish varnish and almost the exact same Bass. Something doesn't seem right if they are both the same maker.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-13-2007, 09:44 PM
Charles Federle Charles Federle is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 07-25-2007
Location: Denton, Texas
Posts: 28
Charles Federle is on a distinguished road
Default

Using Babelfish I found a quick and dirty translation that should shed some light and have everything make a bit more sense.

Contrebasse Pilement (father) Sells. Wood are estimated of 1640. Entirely restored. Manufactured in the workshop of Guarnerius Del Gesu with its wood at the time of its residence with Cremone. Very Powerful double bass, with a very generous low register and a particular stamp. Splendid mechanics. Cordial varnish.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:16 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Question Guarnerius Del Gesu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Federle View Post
Using Babelfish I found a quick and dirty translation that should shed some light and have everything make a bit more sense.

Contrebasse Pilement (father) Sells. Wood are estimated of 1640. Entirely restored. Manufactured in the workshop of Guarnerius Del Gesu with its wood at the time of its residence with Cremone. Very Powerful double bass, with a very generous low register and a particular stamp. Splendid mechanics. Cordial varnish.
That is a tall claim. I doubt that any of the great Cremona makers made any DBs in that period. The Bass looks nice but a Joseph Guarneri? That would be a first I think.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-09-2009, 02:41 AM
ChrisTurner ChrisTurner is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 03-02-2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
ChrisTurner is on a distinguished road
Default Possible Xavier Jacquet Bass

Hi everyone, I was wondering if someone could shed some light on my bass.

I have had it for some time now and it is obviously a french bass and described by many here in Aus as a surprisingly powerful and dark french Bass in the lower register

. I have had 2 names attributed to it by two separate luthiers ( both gave both names).

Jacquet or Claudot.

Of the jacquet basses i have seen it is more likely to be that than a claudot as was said to me.

Any thoughts.

Also if anyone knows what something like this is worth an insight would be greatly appreciated

There are no labels on it, however there is a small engraving on the shoulder that says either 1840 or 1940 not entirely sure. It is however comfortably in the mid 19th century in terms of age.

It was a 3 stringer at some point as the peg box is very tight for the 4th peg and it is put on backwards to fit. There are 3 supposed original tuning machines and a newer one on the D string that was added at the time of conversion.


Cheers Everyone
Attached Files
File Type: zip Photo.zip (4.12 MB, 833 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-09-2009, 07:04 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool well.

The pictures are quite dark. I wish they were loaded on the forum and not a zip file. That would make viewing comparisons a lot easier.

Basses from the mid to late 19th century in France have many similarities between the makers from what I have seen. Basses attributed to either the Claudots, Jacquets, Barbe families or even a few more names often look nearly identical. Is it possible that some of the components came from the same shops or workers? Were there 'brands' being produced then? One thing is for sure and that is the 'Guilds' were definitely in place back then. This means that Scroll from several bass brands (or shops) could be from the same Scroll maker as well as the varnishing. There was a 'Carving Guild (Union)', Painting (varnishing?) Guild and a Violin makers Guild. These are all that I know about concerning instruments but all the Machines we see are from the same shops as well so add that Guild as well.

On dates let me remind you that 3-string Basses were still being offered in the 1920s from both France and England. Although they were available to order, the 4-string method was already taking hold worldwide as the standard by at least 1870 or so if not earlier in some countries.

The scratched in date on your Bass is just that. Something that someone scratched in and even altered it from 1940 to 1840. I would personally not take much belief into your bass being any earlier than 1860 or so and possible later. The style looks to me like a Jacquet shop bass (or Barbe or Claudot.. lol) and from the latter part of the 19th century rather then the mid-century date you have now on it.

Hey, look on the bright side. Everyone believes it's French so at least we all agree on that. I have seen many basses where even guessing the country is even difficult. This one, French Mirecourt-'School' Bass, latter 19th century. That's as far as I would go on this for now.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-09-2009, 07:33 AM
ChrisTurner ChrisTurner is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 03-02-2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
ChrisTurner is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

Thanks for the swift reply sheds abit more light on it. Just wish i could know everything. I always imagine some old guy working away in his shop lol.

With regards to the photos i had trouble because they were quite high resolution and im not really sure how to bring them down. Any ideas?

All i have been told in the past with regards to date is that it points to mid - late 19th century. In your mind what characteristic gives it that indication ?

It would be wonderful to know who carved the 1940 in it at some point and why as that is during parts of 2nd world war.... where was it etc etc lol stuff i will never know.

Cheers once again great forum you have here much better than anything else out there.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-09-2009, 09:24 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,851
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb humm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisTurner View Post
Thanks for the swift reply sheds abit more light on it. Just wish i could know everything. I always imagine some old guy working away in his shop lol.

With regards to the photos i had trouble because they were quite high resolution and im not really sure how to bring them down. Any ideas?

All i have been told in the past with regards to date is that it points to mid - late 19th century. In your mind what characteristic gives it that indication ?

It would be wonderful to know who carved the 1940 in it at some point and why as that is during parts of 2nd world war.... where was it etc etc lol stuff i will never know.

Cheers once again great forum you have here much better than anything else out there.
For Pics, read my son Mike's post here!

On your Bass dates, I am just comparing it to others I have seen and that is quite a bit of them. Most of then attributed to one of the Jacquet's, some to Barbe and some to Claudot.

I have played many French basses and owned 2 nice ones myself. One was attributed to Gustave Bernardel and the other to Barbe. The 7/8ths Violin-Cello model Bernadel was quite typical but the big Gamba 7/8ths Barbe could have been something else. We will never know as we were not there to watch them being made. That's the only 'real' way to know. Seeing IS believing. A Brand on a Bass does NOT mean that is the actual maker. It just means it's their Brand and selling AS.

Shop basses in Germany from the Wilfers and others labeled in this country as Juzek, Pfretzschner, Morelli and others are just that, Brands that were imported by Marketers. This manufacturing style was not limited to Germany. This I think is the reason we see so many French Basses that look alike. Oh, did I mention Lamy? That was another big shop that exported many Basses in both Violin and Gamba shape. In the turn of the 19th-20th century USA catalog from the importer, the 4-string model was an additional $6. That's SIX U$D extra. The 3-string was basic model offered and some French shops offered basses in 3, 4, or 5-string. Would you like 'Fries' with that?

From 20 feet away (maybe even closer), a Lamy, Jacquet, Barbe or Claudot Gamba model basses can all fit in the same mold. What does that mean?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-09-2009, 05:18 PM
ChrisTurner ChrisTurner is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 03-02-2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
ChrisTurner is on a distinguished road
Default

Photos Attached as requested
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1 (Small).JPG
Views:	1148
Size:	10.5 KB
ID:	857  Click image for larger version

Name:	2 (Small).JPG
Views:	1217
Size:	11.1 KB
ID:	858  Click image for larger version

Name:	3 (Small).JPG
Views:	964
Size:	13.6 KB
ID:	859  Click image for larger version

Name:	4 (Small).JPG
Views:	707
Size:	27.8 KB
ID:	860  Click image for larger version

Name:	5 (Small).JPG
Views:	726
Size:	31.4 KB
ID:	861  

Click image for larger version

Name:	7 (Small).JPG
Views:	876
Size:	32.2 KB
ID:	862  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - Ken Smith Basses, LTD. (All Rights Reserved)