Blockless..

[Oystein Djupvik]

Hi, are you familiar with Bohuslav Lantner basses? I have a 1883 flatback bass labeled Bohuslav Lantner Prague. It is a converted 3 stringer and the neck has a wedge in it. I like it very much. Smallish 3/4 gamba size with a distinct sound which projects good. Here is a picture, not very good though.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Oystein Djupvik

Hi, are you familiar with Bohuslav Lantner basses? I have a 1883 flatback bass labeled Bohuslav Lantner Prague. It is a converted 3 stringer and the neck has a wedge in it. I like it very much. Smallish 3/4 gamba size with a distinct sound which projects good. Here is a picture, not very good though.

First off, I am over 2 years late responding to this. Why? I don't know. Although it's not directly on-topic with this thread other than the Prague Label I still want to talk briefly about this bass.

I recently spoke with a Luthier/dealer in Germany and while discussing these basses with the raised shoulders at the neck block which are usually made Blockless, I asked if these were from the Tirol or Mittenwald as we always call these basses Tyrolean. He responded 'Bohemia', Czech. Another Luthier in the USA also said he believes these to be Czech/Bohemian as well and not German/Tirol as previously believed. So, from the Blockless construction often with slanted FFs, I have two people at least that disagree with the Tirol theory.

I have seen some old basses labelled from the Tirol and many from Mittenwald but none of them ever look similar in design or construction as do these Blockless basses that are all over the world now. So, maybe we need to look a bit to the north and west of the Tirol into Bohemia as a place of origin. I did have a bass many years ago with a Label of Sebastian Klotz, Mittenwald 1791 that had a neck block in that raised rib/neck area but I can't say for if it was a Bohemian with a fake label or it was Bavarian with similar construction. It was an old bass that I bought in 1975. Still, of all the confirmed Mittenwald/Tirol basses I have seen, none of them looked like a 'Blockless Wonder'.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

If you look in the old turn-of-the-20th-century Sears catalogs you will see blockless basses for sale, and clearly marked "Made in Germany". At least this is my pre-dementia remembrance. I also recall they were priced at $25 for the basic model and $50 for the Deluxe. I think the "Tyrol" attribution is an American thing.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

If you look in the old turn-of-the-20th-century Sears catalogs you will see blockless basses for sale, and clearly marked "Made in Germany". At least this is my pre-dementia remembrance. I also recall they were priced at $25 for the basic model and $50 for the Deluxe. I think the "Tyrol" attribution is an American thing.

I found this on-line as well as several other pages dating before an after this period about the relations with Germany and Bohemia.

Violin making in western Bohemia and the Vogtland region

In the 19th century, the new constellation of violin making in the economic region of the border between western Bohemian and the Vogtland evolved into a highly efficient division of labour. It went on to shape the wide-scale musical culture of Europe and the U.S. with the large numbers of cost-effective instruments it yielded. Smaller workshops throughout the entire binational area built instruments and, more notably, instrument parts to large-volume merchants who sold them internationally at top profits. In Schönbach, nearly 150,000 violins were produced each year in the late 19th century – along with 200,000 violin backs! These admirable figures clearly illustrate the economic structure of the instrument “publishing” business, as it was called.
There were, however, downsides to the industry's success. One was the massive need which prevailed amongst the families, who were completely financially dependent; the other was the dubious reputation of the lower-quality industrial products which to this day still clings to the era's Bohemian-Saxonian stringed instruments. Schönbach and Graslitz in particular were home to only a few violin makers who were able to create an instrument and all its parts from scratch– and who could afford the time to do so. However, their works – which were often purchased anonymously – had quite good acoustic and aesthetic properties, and these old Bohemian-Saxonian instruments do not deserve the fundamental disdain they frequently are given.
The Schönbach instrument makers experienced a minor form of emancipation from the supremacy of Markneukirchen around the turn of the 20th century when they founded two production cooperatives and established their own brokers. As a result, they were able to export some 20% of their own production by themselves. Within the interlinked business structure of the region, Schönbach stood out as the key centre for trading tonewoods, some 700 train cars of which were sold each year.

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

If you look in the old turn-of-the-20th-century Sears catalogs you will see blockless basses for sale, and clearly marked "Made in Germany". . . . I think the "Tyrol" attribution is an American thing.

You're making sense (as usual).

I've said elsewhere that "Tyrolean" likely began as a businessman's effort to provide a waft of vaguely-Italian atmosphere to a non-Italian instrument.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

You're making sense (as usual).

I've said elsewhere that "Tyrolean" likely began as a businessman's effort to provide a waft of vaguely-Italian atmosphere to a non-Italian instrument.

Very possible and maybe also done to hide where they came from as well protecting the source. Thank's for posting Sam. I have read that thread. Very interesting.

[Ken Smith]

I went thru the last few years of Threads on Blockless basses and rather than merging them here, I thought it would be best to just post the links.

As you can see, some opinions given be me and others point to the Tirol but from new information gathered, some of them at least might be Bohemian instead. The Bohemian region encompasses most of the Czech Republic from the German border near Saxony and into Moravia with Prague being the old capitol of Bohemia.

Here are the other 'Blockless' Threads;

http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=265
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=764
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1331
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1408
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1631
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=2078