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Old 07-31-2010, 01:28 AM
Adam Linz Adam Linz is offline
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Default Old Bass ID

www.photobucket.com/adamlinz Hey everyone; This bass was found in a sax repair shop in Minnesota by a friend of mine. It will hopefully go into restoration soon. I'm showing it for him cause he's a little shy of all you guys. He's a great sax player and good bass player. I know, they are always invading our turf! Was looking for any help as to what we got here. There is an unusual typed label on the inside with a lot of info. Also a pencil mark that reads:

Highland Park Michigan 1914
Gift from Gus Mann, repaired by L.R. Mathews Los Angeles, CA 1988

Another repair label reads:
Repaired by Gustav L. Mann 1914 Detroit, MI

The measurements are on the type-written label on the inside. They are pretty accurate to the bass now. Photos below via photobucket. Thanks for any help or advice. Looks old, sounds old, is old?
www.photobucket.com/adamlinz click old bass

Last edited by Adam Linz; 07-31-2010 at 01:36 AM. Reason: wrong email address
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:41 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Cool 1750-1760?

Ok, I see the cert. or typed Cert. copy that is in the bass. I have never seen anyone put an actual cert. IN the bass. That usually stays in an envelope but this might be a copy.

The Bass on a close-up of the top by the repair shows that it is un-purfled. The varnish is so dark that I can't see the scroll button if it was grafted. I mention this because the neck aria looks slightly raised and could have been a blockless bass. The string length is not on the appraisal inside but I think it is 3/4 sized overall. I do not agree with the 1750-1760 date at all. Maybe it is 100 years or more later, closer to 1900 I would say and that is by the style of the bass. I would consider this a factory/shop made bass and as cheap as they could make them back then for export. Wurlitzer actually sold basses like this that were new and these cheaply constructed basses either looked old on day one or aged at a rapid pace. They were prone to breaking from their blockless type construction. The woods also were probably not well ages not to mention the acclimation of a bass like this once arriving from southern Germany or the Tirol. The tuners are nicer and probably not original but unless I examine the bass in person, I can't say 100% for sure or even if the scroll is original to the bass.

This is not a valuable bass so be careful how much you put into it. There are a few threads about these basses in the 'German School' section.
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1408
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1331
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=764
http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=265

These basses due to their construction which in many cases helped them to fail and need many repeirs makes them look older than they are. Appriasials like the one in the bass are often done like that to make the customer think they have something better than what the do actually have. This way the a 'classy' shop like Wurlitzer can charge you a pretty penny for the paper as well as sell you on the repairs it needs. Back then this bass was from $25-$200 new depending on the model, where you bought it (Sears or Wurlitzer or?) and when it was bought being before or after the first war. Repairs could easily exceed its value at any given period of time, then or now.
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:52 AM
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Thomas Erickson Thomas Erickson is offline
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I'm not qualified to comment, really, but - this was about my take. Which isn't to say it isn't a good bass.

Quote:
the neck aria looks slightly raised and could have been a blockless bass. The string length is not on the appraisal inside but I think it is 3/4 sized overall. I do not agree with the 1750-1760 date at all. Maybe it is 100 years or more later, closer to 1900 I would say and that is by the style of the bass. I would consider this a factory/shop made bass
Quote:
cheaply constructed basses either looked old on day one or aged at a rapid pace. They were prone to breaking from their blockless type construction. The woods also were probably not well aged not to mention the acclimation of a bass like this once arriving from southern Germany or the Tirol. The tuners are nicer and probably not original but unless I examine the bass in person, I can't say 100% for sure or even if the scroll is original to the bass
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:26 PM
Adam Linz Adam Linz is offline
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Thumbs up Thanks guys

Ken and Tom thanks for chiming in. This is what I suspected but wanted to run it by all you masters first. That punch hole in the players side rib says Blockless to me. I was just hoping it was older than feared. It does sound pretty good right now and my friend didn't pay that much for it. I think if we get the back and neck straightened out it will be a happier bass, that is until that bass bar sinks anymore. Remember Ken that things cost a little less here in the Plains States and we have great luthier here that gave us a good quote on getting her back to healthy. So she should be smiling soon. We should probably pull that label out as well. No sense in perpetuating a myth any further. Thanks for the info as always. I learn so much here that will benefit future players and buyers. Best, Adam Linz St Paul, MN
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:14 AM
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Thomas Erickson Thomas Erickson is offline
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Master? Hardly! A trained chimp could ID basses as well as I do! Mr. Smith is the one who's seen enough basses to make a call...

But anyway, yeah, go for it and get that beast playing again! A good bass is a good bass!

I think the label is kind of funny - I'd leave it. Maybe add your own label too just for good measure.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:49 PM
Adam Linz Adam Linz is offline
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Default This bass got restored

Hey everyone. A friend of mine had this bass restored slowly over the past couple of months. It got the top off, new linen inside as well as cracks and seams reset where possible. Old cracks washed and reset. We had to go with a new neck and scroll as the other one had too many problems. Cleaned everything up and I think it got a new endpin and tailpiece as well. Man does it sound like a monster now and it hasn't even come close to finishing settling. The owner is Mike Lewis who plays bass for Andrew Bird and Bon Iver. The bass got restored for under $4000 and I think will be ready for a C extension soon. Please, if you find an older instrument worth saving, save it. The process is both fun and unique and you can learn a lot if your luthier will let you hang in the shop. Usually this involves some lunch and some beer! Scott Jensen of Minneapolis did the restoration. Scott is a player and full time bass repairman. We are very lucky to have him here as he has helped a lot of bassist get the best out of their instruments. I will post photos as soon as I can get Mike off of a tour bus to take some. Hope everyone is well and practicing hard. Best, Adam Linz
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:21 PM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Linz View Post
Hey everyone. A friend of mine had this bass restored slowly over the past couple of months. It got the top off, new linen inside as well as cracks and seams reset where possible. Old cracks washed and reset. We had to go with a new neck and scroll as the other one had too many problems. Cleaned everything up and I think it got a new endpin and tailpiece as well. Man does it sound like a monster now and it hasn't even come close to finishing settling. The owner is Mike Lewis who plays bass for Andrew Bird and Bon Iver. The bass got restored for under $4000 and I think will be ready for a C extension soon. Please, if you find an older instrument worth saving, save it. The process is both fun and unique and you can learn a lot if your luthier will let you hang in the shop. Usually this involves some lunch and some beer! Scott Jensen of Minneapolis did the restoration. Scott is a player and full time bass repairman. We are very lucky to have him here as he has helped a lot of bassist get the best out of their instruments. I will post photos as soon as I can get Mike off of a tour bus to take some. Hope everyone is well and practicing hard. Best, Adam Linz
$4000 to restore that? Must have worked for minimum wage. The neck work alone on my Blockless is more than that. Also, the original scroll should have been restored and grafted to a new neck. A new scroll takes value and mojo away. Many many old basses have repaired scroll and pegboxs. But, what's done is done.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:24 PM
Adam Linz Adam Linz is offline
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Default Oh yeah!

Maybe you need to have some work done here in the Midwest Ken? Just kidding, I know the luthiers that you use Ken are ranked as some of the best in the world. But we got this beast up and running for that and it makes me really happy and it makes my friend happy. The scroll was probably not original and had those awful cut marks that make a 3 sided square around the button, likea new scroll was slapped on after the old one snapped off. But done in a way that keeps the original button on the instrument. So no loss there. It also had two dowl rods through it that looked like they were somehow holding it to the neck. It was pretty awful. The neck was also severly warped. The tuners were saved because they were working great and I've never seen crowns with holes in them. Scott the luthier cut the scroll as close to the original as possible. When I first saw it I thought they did a graft. But nope, new scroll. The bass is now in better playing condition than it ever was probably even when it was new. Thanks to this beautiful forum for advice and inspiration. Best, Adam Linz
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