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  #1  
Old 03-12-2008, 04:52 AM
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Lightbulb Colors..

I am starting the Thread to discuss the various colors of sounds one might hear when comparing various Schools of Basses. Not all Basses sound the same but often we hear that expression 'that French sound', German sound, English sound, Italian 'olive oil' sound, Yankee sound, etc.

While some Bass players might have less experience with large numbers of various old Basses to compare, still I wonder what most of you think. Do you hear the 'origin' within the sound most of the time or not?

Even between Plywoods we have opinions about sound as well as Asian/Chinese Basses and German/Czech shop Basses depending on age, model and possibly maker. Although the latter list or origins are the most common, I would like to discuss the oldies if possible but welcome any and all thoughts as well.

Also, listening to a Bass while playing it or within a few feet of someone else playing, may not sound the same in comparison from a distance of 20-40 feet or more.

What's your take on this?
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:48 PM
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Question Sound "colour"

I think when a bass is played it naturally produces a lot of extraneous noise that doesn't necessarily carry as far as the instrument's true sound.

If youre playing a section and really thrashing the life out of your bass the sound the audience hears is much softer from the one that you hear sat right on top of the instrument.

I really don't like basses that sound excessively bright - although I have heard some that sound really bright and trebley when you are playing them but much more mellow when you stand back from the same bass when someone else is playing.

My bass is labelled Viennese but looks german in style and the sound is what I have heard some describe as "boxy" i.e there's a lot of fundamental and also bright trebley sound but very little mid range harmonics in the sound - the ones that make the tone rich and warm.

I when I hear a basses sound I tend to "see" it like spectrum. If an instrument's sound ever changes for some reason I can usually tell because, as wierd as it sounds I can remember what the sound "looked" like.

what I'd really like to know is if everyone does this or if it just me......
lol
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  #3  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:03 PM
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Cool humm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Stephens View Post
I think when a bass is played it naturally produces a lot of extraneous noise that doesn't necessarily carry as far as the instrument's true sound.

If youre playing a section and really thrashing the life out of your bass the sound the audience hears is much softer from the one that you hear sat right on top of the instrument.

I really don't like basses that sound excessively bright - although I have heard some that sound really bright and trebley when you are playing them but much more mellow when you stand back from the same bass when someone else is playing.

My bass is labelled Viennese but looks german in style and the sound is what I have heard some describe as "boxy" i.e there's a lot of fundamental and also bright trebley sound but very little mid range harmonics in the sound - the ones that make the tone rich and warm.

I when I hear a basses sound I tend to "see" it like spectrum. If an instrument's sound ever changes for some reason I can usually tell because, as wierd as it sounds I can remember what the sound "looked" like.

what I'd really like to know is if everyone does this or if it just me......
lol
Visual spectrum? I wonder if others see the same colors when listening to the same Bass.

We usually refer to the sound as complex when we hear more tones and harmonics off of each note. Italian Basses seem more colorful to my ear. English a tad dryer sound. Like Italian but without the smooth Olive Oil behind each note. My Hart however had both the Oil and the Dry crispiness to each note. It is the only English bass I have heard like that. My Gilkes it thick, clear and punchy. My Pollmann is flatter sounding as far as overtones. I hear that similarity with most German and Czech Basses.

The few Hungarians I had and played sounded like they wanted to be Italian but just couldn't' get the Oil to pour out of the spout!

On your Viennese bass looking German, show some pics of it. In later years they did look more Germanic than the old Vienna and Prague classics of the 18th and 19th century.

On the section playing I agree 100% about the 'edge' dying off as you walk further from the Bass. My Storioni, Martini and Hart are the smoothest Basses I have and use in that order. The Gilkes seems way different. A deep boom sound with clear mids which sound almost too bright at times with some bowing parts but bows smooth, deep and clear. In Concert, I sometimes can't hear my pitch all that well in a section of 4-6 Basses with anything BUT the Gilkes. No one has ever said the Gilkes sounds bright unless playing it solo in a small room. On stage, it is your best friend. When I did the Beeth.6th Storm, fingering all the 16ths, I could hear everything I was doing. I think the other 4 Basses heard me better then they heard themselves. Only two of us had C-extensions. My Ext. notes were as easy to hear as those playing an octave up if not heard over them. Playing the 9th was great as well.

Hearing yourself can be good if it helps with the pitch.
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:01 AM
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On your Viennese bass looking German, show some pics of it. In later years they did look more Germanic than the old Vienna and Prague classics of the 18th and 19th century.
Here are some pics of the bass. I apologise for the standard of the photography!

The name on the label is Franz Xaver Güttler. Having done a little bit of net-based research It appears this maker was better known for producing guitars and zithers, although he does seem to have made violins too.

I was wondering if maybe it was a german instrument he might have purchased in the white or something like that.

It's a pretty overgrown bass, with a back length of 116 cm and a normal string stop of 110, although it has been shortened to 108 via a big bridge cheat.

The f holes are very wide apart (almost 7" at the narrowest point), and the bass bar is very far out from the centre, so much so that when I had a new bridge put on it by Mike Hart earlier this year he to use a 5 string blank, and even that isn't wide enough! He had to set the bridge slightly off to the bass side to get the foot to sit on top of the bar.

Could this maybe be an error made by a guitar maker trying make a bass...hmmm


Thanks

Will
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  #5  
Old 08-18-2008, 09:31 AM
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Question Pics..

Can I see the Back of the Bass, a close up of the Back Button meeting the Neck and more angles of the Scroll?

I need straight on plain and simple shots.
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2008, 10:51 AM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
Can I see the Back of the Bass, a close up of the Back Button meeting the Neck and more angles of the Scroll?

I need straight on plain and simple shots.
Well at least I now know if the bass playing doesn't get me anywhere I can forget taking up photography....
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  #7  
Old 08-18-2008, 02:11 PM
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Cool Franz Xaver Güttler??

Franz Xaver Güttler?? Is there a year on the Bass?

This IS an actual maker/repairer in Vienna b.1857, d.1924.
Founded his own shop in 1889 after training earlier with Carl Franz Schmidt (from about 1869-1876) and then worked in shops for other makers till 1889.

The Bass however looks Germanic and Czech. The Scroll button looks Czech. The Gears look German. The Back looks Czech, the Ribs look German.. Help!!

I think this was a Czech shop Bass (Schoenbach), turn of the century and somehow, that Label found its way into the Bass. I don't see this Bass as being made in Vienna unless I need a refresher course on what a Viennese Bass looks like or the variety they produced. In that period, it was just as easy to buy a factory Bass and complete it in your own shop or sell it as-is out of the Box. .. Just my opinion..
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post

I think this was a Czech shop Bass (Schoenbach), turn of the century and somehow, that Label found its way into the Bass. I don't see this Bass as being made in Vienna unless I need a refresher course on what a Viennese Bass looks like or the variety they produced. In that period, it was just as easy to buy a factory Bass and complete it in your own shop or sell it as-is out of the Box. .. Just my opinion..
Thanks for the info, Ken. The year on the label is 1912. The czech attribution does seem to make sense: when I bought the bass about a year ago I heard the dealer mumble something about it previously residing in eastern europe!

Also I notice a czech bass on Gary Upton's site which is remarkably similar:

http://www.uptonbass.com/used-czech-...-upright-bass/

compare the backs of the 2 instruments - they are virtually identical!

Well I think I'm gonna try and covince (or delude) myself that Güttler acquired this instrment in the white rather than the label being false.

Thanks a lot

Will
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