Integral bass bar; lose it or use it?

[Brian Glassman]

One of my basses is a very nice sounding carved German shop bass from about the 1920's or so (I'll try to post pics). Probably made for the student trade in it's day, but now days it's a nice carved old bass.

It was my main instrument for many years of pro use. Now it is my "B" bass since acquiring my Prescott in '03, but I use it quite often.

Outside of some rib patch/repair issues that Arnold has said may or may not need attention in years to come, it is very healthy w/ a carbon graphite rod, new fingerboard and tuners installed in '07. W/ these upgrades it sounds great, but it has an integral bass bar and I've often wondered if a new bass bar would make this really nice bass responding/sounding bass into a great responding/sounding bass. Of course it would require the top to be removed and then the (not immediate) rib issue could be addressed at the same time.
Not sure if the benefits or quality of the instrument would warrant the cost of this kind of upgrade. Comments?

[Mike Mandelas]

Ask Arnold about it. If he believes it's worth it, then do it by all means.

[Ken Smith]

Well, without seeing the bass it's hard to make that call. It depends on a lot of things including the current condition of the top and the sound of the bass.

You will then have to weigh-in the estimated sound/structure change vs. the repair cost/bass value before and after equation.

Got a Crystal Ball handy?

I agree that Arnold would be the best one to ask for many reasons, some stated. He knows the bass, worked on it and knows the market. Taking suggestions blindly here from the gallery is not the most scientific way to come to decision. You are looking at spending a fair amount of money here. Once the bass is opened it would be a surprise to me that ONLY the Bar and Rib would get worked on. You never know what you will find inside.

[Brian Glassman]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Well, without seeing the bass it's hard to make that call. It depends on a lot of things including the current condition of the top and the sound of the bass.

You will then have to weigh-in the estimated sound/structure change vs. the repair cost/bass value before and after equation.

Got a Crystal Ball handy?

I agree that Arnold would be the best one to ask for many reasons, some stated. He knows the bass, worked on it and knows the market. Taking suggestions blindly here from the gallery is not the most scientific way to come to decision. You are looking at spending a fair amount of money here. Once the bass is opened it would be a surprise to me that ONLY the Bar and Rib would get worked on. You never know what you will find inside.

I hear ya. I'll try to post pics soon. THNX, Bri

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

I hear ya. I'll try to post pics soon. THNX, Bri

Ok, the last factor. In my opinion, a REAL bassbar is far superior to an integral one. Also, a real Bar if put in properly will not promote cracks like the integral bar does.

Another factor is the thickness of the Top. Basses like yours are often machine made with the integral bar left in. The plates are often left too thick. Re-graduation of an overly thick top also improves the depth and response of the bass. This to be determined by a qualified luthier only. Arnold and Jeff B. are my two choices for this kind of Job in the NYC area.

[Brian Glassman]

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

I hear ya. I'll try to post pics soon. THNX, Bri

Here they are; http://picasaweb.google.com/10778581..._03caQxLqZzwE#

In one close up of the lower E side 'F' you can see a glimpse of the bass bar.

In the pic of the wood grain I'm trying to show the partial knot near the seam of the 2-3 piece top. This is under the over stand and I believe the bar has some of this knot in it as well.

[Ken Smith]

You mentioned that it's a nice sounding bass. Also, I don't see anything that's currently broken. Considering the value of the bass as-is, the value fully restored (slightly higher), the cost you have into the bass to date (I have no idea what you've spent on it) and.. the total combined cost IF you have it restored (will not be cheap), my vote from the information given is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

If and when it ever breaks and needs the Top off, do everything you can. For now, it doesn't seem worth it to spend the money needed to restore or rather, re-build.

[Brian Glassman]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

You mentioned that it's a nice sounding bass. Also, I don't see anything that's currently broken. Considering the value of the bass as-is, the value fully restored (slightly higher), the cost you have into the bass to date (I have no idea what you've spent on it) and.. the total combined cost IF you have it restored (will not be cheap), my vote from the information given is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

If and when it ever breaks and needs the Top off, do everything you can. For now, it doesn't seem worth it to spend the money needed to restore or rather, re-build.

Thanks Ken. Care to venture an opinion on origin/ region/ maker(s) etc? It used to have hat peg tuners-BTW

I've never posted pics of this bass before.

Bri

[Thomas Erickson]

Were integral bass bars really carved (by hand) before the advent of machine carving in the factories? Why would they have done it? It seems pretty clear that the independent bar is superior, and if you're not mass producing instruments and trying to save every last penny... it doesn't seem to make sense.

Oh, and as for the machine carving - at what point in time do we figure they started doing it, for the most part?