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  #1  
Old 08-26-2012, 11:22 PM
Frank Larouche Frank Larouche is offline
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Default Another possible (french?) purchase

Hello all,

Here is a bass that the seller say is french and from late 19th century. He also says that the neck (and probably the scroll) is not the original one. What do you think? Does it seem possible to your trained eyes? It is right in my budget and I have been looking for a long time.

Thanks in advance for your insight

Francis
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2012, 11:28 PM
Frank Larouche Frank Larouche is offline
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http://s1164.photobucket.com/albums/...ncis_Larouche/
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2012, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Larouche View Post
The scroll is in keeping with the bass. Late 19th to early 20th century is likely the period. The bass looks totally Germanic in style. The angled flatback is NOT a French trait at all. I think it can be German, Czech, Austrian or Hungarian but nothing French at all.

Maybe ask him why he thinks it's French like what part of the bass makes him think that other than the color.
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Ok, looking at the front and side of the Scroll now I think this is Hungarian, same period of time, 80-120 years old or so, maybe less but not more.

Hungarian. That is my opinion after looking at all the pics, not German, Czech or Austrian and not close to French in any way.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:44 AM
Frank Larouche Frank Larouche is offline
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Ok, this is a bit what I tought, I had never seen a two-piece flatback on a french bass. Do you think that it is all hand made by the same guy, or that it is a shop bass? I know it's hard to tell with only pics. If the bass is hungarian what is a pallpark in therm of price? 5 to 10k or it can fetch a higher price? 10-20 k?

The seller think part of it is french because there is a french label inside with the name of Paul Blanchard. It's surely fake.

Do you think the whole bass could be a new bass antiqued?

Thanks a lot for the answers!
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Larouche View Post
Ok, this is a bit what I tought, I had never seen a two-piece flatback on a french bass. Do you think that it is all hand made by the same guy, or that it is a shop bass? I know it's hard to tell with only pics. If the bass is hungarian what is a pallpark in therm of price? 5 to 10k or it can fetch a higher price? 10-20 k?

The seller think part of it is french because there is a french label inside with the name of Paul Blanchard. It's surely fake.

Do you think the whole bass could be a new bass antiqued?

Thanks a lot for the answers!
The front of the scroll has very sharp lines so it can be new and antiqued. I would have to inspect the bass personally to give any more opinions from what I have so far but it does look Hungarian, old or new.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:50 PM
Frank Larouche Frank Larouche is offline
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Thanks for your insight!!!

If I try it I will definitively bring it to a luthier to be sure. Ultimately the sound will be an important factor too.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2012, 10:37 AM
Shawn Charniga Shawn Charniga is offline
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Good morning,

I've registered as a member expressly because I recently bought a very similar bass -- same varnish, same slender C-bouts, same FF-holes, same contour at the bottom back of the pegbox. My bass is also unlabeled.

The only difference I can see is that my bass has two-on-a-plate machines, rather than the individual machines on the bass Mr. Larouche posted.

If appropriate, I would be happy to start my own thread with measurements and (terrible) photos.

Mr. Smith, may I ask you to elaborate on your theory this is a Hungarian bass? I frankly have no idea what it is, but it seems to bear little resemblance to basses described as Hungarian by Nahrmann and others.

Many thanks in advance, and sorry for butting into someone else's thread.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Charniga View Post
Good morning,

I've registered as a member expressly because I recently bought a very similar bass -- same varnish, same slender C-bouts, same FF-holes, same contour at the bottom back of the pegbox. My bass is also unlabeled.

The only difference I can see is that my bass has two-on-a-plate machines, rather than the individual machines on the bass Mr. Larouche posted.

If appropriate, I would be happy to start my own thread with measurements and (terrible) photos.

Mr. Smith, may I ask you to elaborate on your theory this is a Hungarian bass? I frankly have no idea what it is, but it seems to bear little resemblance to basses described as Hungarian by Nahrmann and others.

Many thanks in advance, and sorry for butting into someone else's thread.
I will be moving this thread to the German School section. If your bass was sold as French to you then here would be fine. If not, starting your own thread is just as good.

On Hungarian, I have no clue what the others describe as Hungarian but the Hungarians are great copyists. I have seen all kinds of basses and models that when the dust settles, I see one or two things that tell me it's Hungarian.

This scroll is cut with the center line raised and the wood between the edges is flat rather than curved from point to point;

This bass here which is Hungarian and the underside of the scroll which has no wear from being protected is flat between the points as well. This is something I have seen on several Hungarian basses and never anywhere else.
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2012, 11:58 AM
Shawn Charniga Shawn Charniga is offline
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Very interesting, thank you for the insight. I'm not exactly sure whether the scroll curves on either side of the center line, but I'm fairly certain it does.

It was sold to me as a fully carved 3/4, provenance unknown. Considering the price I have no reason to complain, but a reasonably accurate description and general value would be helpful when I insure it.

I will start a new thread in the appropriate sub-forum. Thanks again.
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Charniga View Post
Very interesting, thank you for the insight. I'm not exactly sure whether the scroll curves on either side of the center line, but I'm fairly certain it does.

It was sold to me as a fully carved 3/4, provenance unknown. Considering the price I have no reason to complain, but a reasonably accurate description and general value would be helpful when I insure it.

I will start a new thread in the appropriate sub-forum. Thanks again.
If the bass is sold by any level of dealer, you can be sure he knows what it is Not! That is like a disclaimer to cover ones butt. Back a few decades ago when basses were sold, it always had some kind of origin or age but not always accurate. The Hungarian game was not quite playing over here yet. Rarely did we ever see bass from inland Bohemian, Austria or Hungary. Mostly German or German/Czech border basses were about the furthest east we would see.

Now, we have new terms on the market like European, or possibly this or that.

I deal in basses that come from all over and often we see basses that have a mixture of parts or the bass was altered. Maybe the top or back or scroll is old and the rest of the bass made new and antiqued around that. As long as the bass is sold honestly as far as origin and age goes, an agreed upon fair price is in order.

Not all great basses are famous Italians!
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2012, 12:36 PM
Shawn Charniga Shawn Charniga is offline
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No dealer...I bought it from a college student in a parking lot in Sloatsburgh. And it's definitely not a great Italian. I'm nowhere near that lucky!
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