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Old 06-13-2009, 05:11 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Default Playing Jazz

I have always loved jazz and it has always been my favourite type of music to play. I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people give their thoughts on playing jazz. I started life as a violinist and was taught in the classical tradition. I changed to bass in my twenties. What really inspired me to play was hearing jazz - I loved the freedom that came with it, but, most of all, when I heard a walking bass, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck. I haven't played that much jazz over the last few years and I've decided to try to get into the local scene.
Presently I'm flicking through the real book and working on my time with a metronome.
I love soloing, but sometimes I'm guilty of trying to play too many notes. I'm trying to be more intuitive when I solo and to remember Dizzy's words,
"Leave some holes for the music to get out."
So, who wants to talk about jazz?
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:52 PM
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Anselm Hauke Anselm Hauke is offline
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Default realbook

i don´t know if this is legal, but:
if you need some more look here
http://www.dearnell.com/musique/Real%20Book%20PDF/
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:17 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Wow Anselm - that's a lot of books. Tell me about your jazz playing, I heard a rumour that you do a bit.
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Prowse View Post
Tell me about your jazz playing, I heard a rumour that you do a bit.
well, hm, sometimes, now and then
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:51 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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well, hm, sometimes, now and then
Anselm, my dear friend, sometimes getting information out of you is like trying to get blood out of a stone!
I did a short tour with Gordon Brisker once. Unfortunately, my dad died and I had to leave the tour early. He told me that he liked my swing feel. We played in Auckland (the night my dad died, but I didn't know until the next day). Gordon had really cold hands and my wife tried to warm them for him. I guess that playing with Gordon was the high point of my jazz career. Some of his charts were quite badly written and were very hard to read. We played a ballad at each performance that we (the band) always seemed to muck up - in reality it was because we couldn't read the chart. We got it right at the last concert and Gordon turned and gave us the thumbs up.
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:58 PM
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great story.
i know you will find a good band again.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:40 PM
Marcus Johnson Marcus Johnson is offline
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I like that Diz quote. Good advice. I was doing a session once long ago, playing my stuff, and the producer came on the phones and said "You're playing some great ****....... now could you please cut about half that **** out!" That stuck in my mind. Self editing....

Richard.... I've spent a bunch of time playing mostly jazz...coming up on 40 years now. Yikes. In that time, I've looked at a LOT of real books, fake books, done a boatload of transcribing, wrote originals, and blew through a lot of my folk's $$$ as a "music major". Looking back, two things advanced my playing as a jazz bassist the most.

-The first one was playing jazz at a really young age with my dad, who immersed me in live work as soon as he discerned that I was into it. There's no replacement for the hard knocks school. It just takes time, a lifetime in my case, and it leads to the second thing, which is;

-incessant listening to the Masters. And what a pleasurable way to absorb great information. It's really all I had as a very young kid, before I even picked up a bass as an adolescent. Dad's vinyl, thank god for that! As nice as it it is to have all the real books and media available for clarification, I think that the only way to play jazz is to learn it as an aural tradition. I'm not sure jazz can be taught without the student having some sense of the language, gleaned from listening to a whole bunch of live and/or recorded music. It's hard to teach someone to swing!

For me, that would involve a lot of stuff that isn't bass music..... Dexter Gordon, Billie Holiday, Max Roach, Miles, and so many more.... all have been an immeasurable influence on the way that I play the bass. I'm really thankful that, even though I play jazz bass just about every night, I'm still a student and a fan of greatness.

I hope your studies are going well, bro. Great thread.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:45 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Thanks Marcus, that was great advice.
I remember Bobby Shew saying at a clinic, many years ago, that he wore out all his record covers because he used to play brushes on them as he listened to his records.
Bobby did a lot for jazz down under in the early 1980s. I was so inspired by him that I took up the trumpet. Well, in truth, I was inspired by Roy Eldridge (sp!) and Dizzy first but Bobby delivered the knockout punch. In those days we seldom got to talk to top players or see them play close up.
I've just been working on There Is No Greater Love after reading about Ken playing with John Clayton (on another thread). It's a tune I've never really checked out in detail.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:34 PM
Marcus Johnson Marcus Johnson is offline
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Actually, John is a strong advocate of learning material by listening to it. He's a great teacher.

One other thing that can really help in absorbing and internalizing a tune is to learn the head. Lots of bassists don't seem to do that. It may be the best way to get to know it well enough to solo over the changes. Taking it one step further, it's not a bad idea to learn the lyrics of the tune as well.... anything to help give you context for your improvisations.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:09 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson View Post
Actually, John is a strong advocate of learning material by listening to it. He's a great teacher.

One other thing that can really help in absorbing and internalizing a tune is to learn the head. Lots of bassists don't seem to do that. It may be the best way to get to know it well enough to solo over the changes. Taking it one step further, it's not a bad idea to learn the lyrics of the tune as well.... anything to help give you context for your improvisations.
All true. Very true.
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Old 06-29-2009, 01:30 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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It's raining and bitterly cold. I have something resembling the flu. I can't take time off school because it's too busy.
The good news? I have a week and a half off, starting next Saturday.
My beloved has lined up a few jobs so that I don't get bored - even though I emphatically informed her that I love being bored!
I plan to put the first Monday of this break aside for what I am calling
"Richard's Big Bass Improvement Day' - I thought up the name myself.
I know that Rome wasn't built in a day and that practising flat out for one day is not the answer to anything. Nevertheless, that's what I intend to do. I intend to immerse myself in bass for one day. I'll be like a one man workshop...
"Hi all, and thanks for coming. Let's start off with some questions - yes the guy at the back." Richard kicks proceedings off.
"Hi, my name is Richard. I just want to ask what Richard's Big Bass Improvement Day will cover." asks Richard.
"Good question. I intend to cover everything." Richard replies.
"But... but, that doesn't seem really possible. Not in one day." Richard retorts.
"Well," Richard replies to the man at the back, "firstly I'll be looking at time, tuning, bowing articulation and pizz. Then we'll take pieces from your repertoire and look at how we can improve tone and improvisation skills. We'll also stop, from time to time, to review our progress."
"Okay, sounds good." Richard replies.
"Are there any more questions?" asks Richard.
  #12  
Old 06-29-2009, 03:05 AM
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Cool humm

Well, juts on case, let me add something else for you to make sure ALL 24 hours of this day you plan will have something worthwhile to work on.

First a short story and a theory to get there. One of my first private bass teachers ever was (and still is) the great Reggie Workman. If you don't know who he is, google him and YouTube him.

I would watch him play in a club with a Guitar duo at first and later in a Piano Duo at a few different clubs around NYC and notice that once in awhile he would do some kind of fast descending lick up in thumb position using 3 or 4 strings coming across with a lot of notes there. Each note was clear and a good note as well. He was playing his 4/4 (or bigger) Ferdinand Seitz Bass, a big beautiful dark colored old German bass with a sound to match. I have played this bass myself a few times but that was back around 1970 or so.

So, for jazz and for practice what's the best way to build up technique to play like that across the Strings in thumb position? Well, without going out and buying a bunch of books by all the new guys on how to re-invent the wheel, just take a book you already have. Take your Simandl Book I and play the first few pages of the positions, maybe up to IVth BUT at an Octave higher using T as the open string and 1-2-3 in place of 1-2-4.

Try that just as it's written but up an octave and report back to me after your done a few of these jazz gigs and had a chance to solo up in TP with a few upper descending lines. Practice this with Bow and with Pizz. Why with Pizz? Because that's how you will be playing in Jazz. Why with Bow? Because you can hold the notes longer and build up your finger strength in those positions and well as work on your intonation. Bow first, Pizz second. Back and forth.. Have fun, take two Aspirins and call me in the morning..
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:24 AM
Joel Larsson Joel Larsson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Prowse View Post
My beloved has lined up a few jobs so that I don't get bored - even though I emphatically informed her that I love being bored!
Does your bass get you gigs?
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:54 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Quote:
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Well, juts on case, let me add something else for you to make sure ALL 24 hours of this day you plan will have something worthwhile to work on.
Thanks Ken, you're like a slightly older big brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
One of my first private bass teachers ever was (and still is) the great Reggie Workman. If you don't know who he is, google him and YouTube him.
Yes, I know who Reggie is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Smith View Post
So, for jazz and for practice what's the best way to build up technique to play like that across the Strings in thumb position? Well, without going out and buying a bunch of books by all the new guys on how to re-invent the wheel, just take a book you already have. Take your Simandl Book I and play the first few pages of the positions, maybe up to IVth BUT at an Octave higher using T as the open string and 1-2-3 in place of 1-2-4.
"Rich, why would you be playing the 2nd Ab on the E string?"
Remember, I'm the guy going for that Ab on the E string from the "Wolf note or not?" thread.
Thanks Ken, but I'm pretty fluent in that first thumb pos. However, I'll take your thoughts and apply them to the thumb pos. starting on D on the G string, as I'd like to make that as stable as the lower thumb pos.
Quote:
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Have fun, take two Aspirins and call me in the morning..
Thanks, Dr Ken.
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:55 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Originally Posted by Joel Larsson View Post
Does your bass get you gigs?
I'm telling Oren that you're being silly again!
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:01 AM
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Thumbs up Enjoy!

For your listening pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohYzc...layer_embedded
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:50 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Post Listening is everything, well almost.

I wonder how many solos have been played using notes that fall comfortably under our fingers. I've fallen into this trap numerous times.
I've lately come up with a little practice idea. What I do is, while practising soloing, I listen for each main note in my head first. I figure that, if I hear a note in my head, it's probably the one that I should play. I know we all should be playing what we hear all the time, but sometimes Johnny Technique gets in the way. Obviously the note I hear takes me to a different place than I intended my hand to be. So far doing this is making me feel honest about what I play. It's Sunday morning Dowm here (NZ) and I'm writing this intuitively, without much thought. I bet you guys play what you hear all the time and I'm the only idiot who had to think about this!
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:34 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Here's a silly little idea I had the other day, and have been working on. I've started making up 'weirdish' note sequences that go from about open D to high harmonic G. I'm making up ones for major keys and have made up two whole tone note runs - I intend to make up three diminished scale runs next. Obviously the two WT runs sound pretty weird - even my wife noticed that (Well, she does live with me!). I'm hoping to somehow incorporate the runs into my music eventually. What I have noticed, though, is that, when I go back to playing my normal improvised stuff, it sounds somehow fresher. I'm looking on this as a sort of intuitive experiment that might kick some new life into my playing.
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Old 09-21-2009, 01:20 AM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Prowse View Post
Here's a silly little idea I had the other day, and have been working on. I've started making up 'weirdish' note sequences that go from about open D to high harmonic G. I'm making up ones for major keys and have made up two whole tone note runs - I intend to make up three diminished scale runs next. Obviously the two WT runs sound pretty weird - even my wife noticed that (Well, she does live with me!). I'm hoping to somehow incorporate the runs into my music eventually. What I have noticed, though, is that, when I go back to playing my normal improvised stuff, it sounds somehow fresher. I'm looking on this as a sort of intuitive experiment that might kick some new life into my playing.
Well, this idea hasn't been really as exciting as I thought it might be - I think I'll scrap it and spend more time disecting my repertoire.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:45 PM
Richard Prowse Richard Prowse is offline
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I know she's a bass guitarist, but here's some advice from a master.
Check out what she says about 'note scales'. When I was young(er) in the 70s and trying to figure out the bass guitar, there weren't many instruction books available Down here (NZ). Fortunately Carol Kaye's were and I learnt heaps from them. She's like the best bass teacher I've had.
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