please help identify

[kurt ratering]

hello all, long time reader first time poster, hope this is the right forum. i need help identifying this old bass. at first i thought maybe french on account of the lack of contralinings and the shape of the button, but it doesnt seem refined enough to be french. the original string length would have been 43.5", but with a 1/4" cheat from a t- nut and cheating the stop the width of a bridge i have it at 42 5/8". looking forward to the discussion, thanks, kurt

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by kurt ratering

.......hope this is the right forum. i need help identifying this old bass.....

hi
i think you posted in the right forum... "german school of basses"...

[Ken Smith]

German all the way..

One quick was is to ID the Scroll and Gears to see if they are original to the Bass. if so, then one thing to remember is the the French NEVER used German Gears.

Also, the Neck/Scroll looks to be Beech and not Maple. Every French Bass I have seen in original form has had Maple neck/Scroll and some form of French Gears.

Also, if the Bass has outer linings (which this does not) then it will not be French either.

If the Bass has Purfling that goes around wither the Top and or Back plates, then that too is not 100% French in making. Many quasi Cello models were made in France but the Germans did this as well.

Here are two examples Top and Back each. Please try and guess which is German and which is French. Try from the Tops first as the Backs look more obvious, or at least to my eye they do.





FYI, it doesn't matter if it's a Round Back or a Flat Back as both were made in either country.

On the German Bass above, note that there were many grades of instruments produced from total handmade down to Blockless factory models in the late 19th to early 20th century but mostly factory grade by the numbers. I see just about every other well made German bass attributed to French origin but erroneously. This is most often done by the dealers selling them no doubt and had passed down false teachings as to what the differences are between French work and German work and believe me, there is good and not so good in both schools.

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by kurt ratering

At first i thought maybe french on account of the lack of contralinings and the shape of the button, but it doesnt seem refined enough to be french.

I get ya, but it is possible that someone in France may have once made something which was not the epitome of refinement . . .

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

One quick way is to ID the Scroll and Gears to see if they are original to the Bass. If so, then one thing to remember is the the French NEVER used German Gears.

I get ya, but I never say "never."

Looks like a nice bass but I bet it will look even better when you're done with it, Kurt.

[kurt ratering]

so is it fair to say that not all cello style purflings are french, but most french inst. will have it? in reference to the pics ken posted, is the one with the extension the one from france? the purfling looks rounder than the other.
is it possible to narrow down its orgin (the bass in question) with the beech neck, or is that more of a "german school" thing?
sorry for the blizzard of questions and thanks for the insights, kurt

[Arnold Schnitzer]

The treatment of the back button is Germanic/Bohemian.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by kurt ratering

so is it fair to say that not all cello style purflings are french, but most french inst. will have it? in reference to the pics ken posted, is the one with the extension the one from france? the purfling looks rounder than the other.
is it possible to narrow down its orgin (the bass in question) with the beech neck, or is that more of a "german school" thing?
sorry for the blizzard of questions and thanks for the insights, kurt

The Ext. bass is German. The Cello button model is French and a fine pedigree. I have never seen that on a German Bass. Not all round purfling is French and not all French have round purfling. Purfling style does not constitute a school of making. That is where the common error is made. I don't believe all dealers know or don't know that but they seem to pin the French flag on anything remotely close.

In the case of the Ext. bass shown, the owner was so proud of his new 'French' Bass he bought from a famous NY shop but after 2 seconds of seeing a single partial Rib 'only' as he was taking off the cover, I let the ball drop and told him what I thought his bass really was. This by the way is a good friend of mine and it was recently sold by him to another friend of mine I introduced him to. The Bass is a nice bass, just not French. Being French would not make the bass one ounce better in sound or quality. Just maybe the dealer could ask a higher price..