Small, light, loud and good!??

[Ronson Hall]

Ken Smithites,

Just picked up a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 210T yesterday at Century Music Systems here in San Antonio. I'm excited, because the unit is light, packs plenty of punch (375 watts @ 8 ohms, 600 @ 4 ohms), and sounds really, really nice.

For the most part, I play at churches in small to medium venues, so this should be what the doctor ordered. If I have any problems, or have any unusually great reports, I'll let you know!

I'll post a photo ASAP.

[Albert Smith]

Congrats on the new rig Ronson, now groove hard.

[Christopher Rhodes]

It seems this topic has gone silent. I believe it continues to a viable topic of discussion. As of March 2009. I see new "head" developments.

The GK MB2 - is a 500 watt feather weight amp that is a real contender.
The Genz Benz Shuttle with 600 watts!
The Eden WTX 360 is now pumped up to 500 watts! Now the WTX500.
My personal favorite is the LMKII, which now upgraded to the LMKIII with 800 watts at 4ohmns.

My last gig I used my smith + LMKII + 2 4x10 Bagend cabinets! There was a crushing low tone throughout the gig!. I cannot say enough about the full range tone of this setup.

My question for the forum is: What are your experiences with the above heads and your Ken Smith bass?

[Christopher Rhodes]

I am still awaiting the experiences of other Smith bass owners with these new "lightweight" amps with ample power; 500 or better watts.

I believe this is a viable topic of discussion, since your rig, Head+cabinet, is a part of the sound that your Ken Smith bass produces. Guitar players seem to understand this concept, but us bass players rarely discuss this connection.

I hope to hear your experiences.

I am currently using 2 4x10s on stage, with a 500 watt head.

[Bob Faulkner]

My rig is anything but lightweight so I really can't comment.

[Mike Braun]

I play through an LMK and I absolutely love it. I am in tonal heaven when combined with my Smith.

[Roosevelt Allen]

I've been waiting for th Eden WTX500; but the delivery date keeps being pushed back. Because of some upcoming gigs, I will probably go with the Shuttle6.0 because of the tube pre. I will post results later.

[Roosevelt Allen]

The Shuttle 6.0 arrived today. I used it at a gig this evening and it was awesome! I used it with an Ampeg 410hlf which of course is a 4 ohm cab; so 600 watts of power was available. The Ampeg cab has nice bottom end; so the sound was nicely balanced with the amp set flat and the gain at 12 o'clock. There was more than enough headroom. The drummer and keyboard player were amzed at the tone, volume and the ability to cut through the mix. Now I need to locate a light weight cab with acceptable lows. I am open to suggestions. So come on and give some responses.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Roosevelt Allen

Now I need to locate a light weight cab with acceptable lows. I am open to suggestions. So come on and give some responses.

Eden 210XST. It's always better to stay with 8 ohm cabinets. This way you can always add more cabinets and get way more coverage when you need it.

[Ronson Hall]

Originally Posted by Tim Bishop

Eden 210XST. It's always better to stay with 8 ohm cabinets. This way you can always add more cabinets and get way more coverage when you need it.

I was going to invest in the Genz Benz 12" extension cab, but I must go ahead and do the Eden 210XST as I had originally planned. Great bottom and, at 8 ohms, I can run it with the Shuttle alone like mentioned above!

Question: What's a good, functional application for my Eden Traveler Plus? Do I also need to consider investing in a good 4 ohm cab as well (and possibly get rid of my beloved SWR Goliath III to make room?)

[Roosevelt Allen]

Tim,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll go to Atlanta bass gallery and check out the Eden 210XST tomorrow. I normally use an Ampeg SVT-4pro; but I have been enjoying the shuttle.More follow up to come.....

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Ronson Hall

Question: What's a good, functional application for my Eden Traveler Plus? Do I also need to consider investing in a good 4 ohm cab as well (and possibly get rid of my beloved SWR Goliath III to make room?)

The SWR Goliath III is a nice cab with a 105db SPL rating. Why would you want to get rid of that cab? Is it an 8 ohm cabinet? I'd keep it.

Stick with 8 ohm cabinets always. Again, this is where you will recognize significant coverage differences because you can always add more 8 ohm cabinets than you can 4 ohm cabinets. Simply put: 2 - 8 ohm cabinets running parallel is a 4 ohm load and will pull whatever the 4 ohm indicated output level of the amp is, BUT, because you have more speakers, you'll recognize significant volume coverage. BTW the difference you hear between 1 4-ohm cabinet and 1 8-ohm cabinet individually running from the same amp is nominal. AB it and see for yourself. Another case for sticking with 8 ohm cabinets.

The best way for you to hear this put to the test is do this:

Scenario 1: Hook up a quality 4-ohm cabinet (ex. 1
210XST(4)) to the amp (assuming the amp can handle a 4-ohm load). Then play and listen.

Scenario 2: Hook up 2 quality 8-ohm cabinets (ex. 2 210XST(8)'s) to the same amp. Then play and listen. You WILL hear the difference from Scenario 1 above and realize a significant increase in coverage.

NOTE: Under Scenario 2 and if the amp can handle a 2 ohm load, you can still add 2 more 8 ohm cabinets for even more coverage!!! If you haven't heard this, you must try it one time in your life. : )

Granted, you may not need the additional coverage, but WHY limit yourself???

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Roosevelt Allen

Tim,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll go to Atlanta bass gallery and check out the Eden 210XST tomorrow. I normally use an Ampeg SVT-4pro; but I have been enjoying the shuttle.More follow up to come.....

Once you get there, if you can, try to locate an Eden WT-550, WT-800, WT-1205, etc. and use those amps with the 210XST cabinet vs. the Ampeg SVT-4 Pro head. Eden Amps are way cleaner and will give you the right mix (i.e. best amp and cab combination). Once you hear it, I think you'll hear exactly what I am talking about.

[Roger Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Anyone tried the Markbass CMD-102P? It's a combo with 2-10's, weighs 44 lbs. Also, who sells those?

Tried the kick-back version. Tight and warm, not obnoxious but sits very nice in a small band. Does not get lost. Neat amp, I'd get one if I had the scratch.

[Ronson Hall]

Originally Posted by Tim Bishop

The SWR Goliath III is a nice cab with a 105db SPL rating. Why would you want to get rid of that cab? Is it an 8 ohm cabinet? I'd keep it.

Stick with 8 ohm cabinets always. Again, this is where you will recognize significant coverage differences because you can always add more 8 ohm cabinets than you can 4 ohm cabinets. Simply put: 2 - 8 ohm cabinets running parallel is a 4 ohm load and will pull whatever the 4 ohm indicated output level of the amp is, BUT, because you have more speakers, you'll recognize significant volume coverage. BTW the difference you hear between 1 4-ohm cabinet and 1 8-ohm cabinet individually running from the same amp is nominal. AB it and see for yourself. Another case for sticking with 8 ohm cabinets.

The best way for you to hear this put to the test is do this:

Scenario 1: Hook up a quality 4-ohm cabinet (ex. 1
210XST(4)) to the amp (assuming the amp can handle a 4-ohm load). Then play and listen.

Scenario 2: Hook up 2 quality 8-ohm cabinets (ex. 2 210XST(8)'s) to the same amp. Then play and listen. You WILL hear the difference from Scenario 1 above and realize a significant increase in coverage.

NOTE: Under Scenario 2 and if the amp can handle a 2 ohm load, you can still add 2 more 8 ohm cabinets for even more coverage!!! If you haven't heard this, you must try it one time in your life. : )

Granted, you may not need the additional coverage, but WHY limit yourself???

I really, really appreciate that response!

I've had my SWR Goliath III for a long while. When I first acquired my Eden Traveler Plus, I used it to power my SWR for quite a while (sounded great to me!). I was speaking to a sales guy when I bought the Shuttle, informing him I had the SWR. He told me that, at about 350-400 watts feeding into the SWR from the Eden, it was a wonder I hadn't damaged my SWR a long time ago, as I was under-powering the cab. He said the Goliath III needed a minimum of 600 watts to run efficiently.

I was a little shaken after that conversation, as I did not want to "tear up" my Goliath! However, as I mentioned before, I had apparently been "under-powering" my Goliath for a long while (according to the sales guy), with no obvious adverse effects at all.

I started running the SWR Golith III (8 ohms) with my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 & 210 GB cab (8 ohms) at church three weeks ago (the Shuttle pumps 600 watts at 4 ohms). All I can say is, it sounds great and, so far, so good!

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Ronson Hall

I really, really appreciate that response!

I've had my SWR Goliath III for a long while. When I first acquired my Eden Traveler Plus, I used it to power my SWR for quite a while (sounded great to me!). I was speaking to a sales guy when I bought the Shuttle, informing him I had the SWR. He told me that, at about 350-400 watts feeding into the SWR from the Eden, it was a wonder I hadn't damaged my SWR a long time ago, as I was under-powering the cab. He said the Goliath III needed a minimum of 600 watts to run efficiently.

I was a little shaken after that conversation, as I did not want to "tear up" my Goliath! However, as I mentioned before, I had apparently been "under-powering" my Goliath for a long while (according to the sales guy), with no obvious adverse effects at all.

I started running the SWR Golith III (8 ohms) with my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 & 210 GB cab (8 ohms) at church three weeks ago (the Shuttle pumps 600 watts at 4 ohms). All I can say is, it sounds great and, so far, so good!

You're NOT going to hurt your cabinet: He's incorrect. You may be underpowering it a bit and it would be nice if you had a bass amp that puts out 600W or more at 8 ohms to get the most from your cabinet. FYI: Some amps allow you to bridge at 8 ohms. By doing this you are combining amps to produce about 2X the output level of the unbridged 8 ohm signal, thus, supplying all the power needed to drive that cabinet to it's fullest and then some, but that doesn't mean your cabinet won't work well for you with what you have; it will.

What you really need to try is adding another 8 ohm cabinet. Most cabinets are wired parallel, so, all you would need to do is run out of one cabinet into the other. Remember, connecting 2 8 ohm cabinets to your amp will increase the load to 4 ohms. Provided your amp can handle a 4 ohm load, you won't have any issues. You will hear a huge difference in output and have all the coverage you will most likely need. Try it and see.

Also.......

You can NEVER have TOO MUCH headroom. My PLX-3602 will put out 3600W . Will I ever need or use that? Maybe, maybe not. But it sure is nice to know it's there IF I need it.

[Roosevelt Allen]

Originally Posted by Tim Bishop

Once you get there, if you can, try to locate an Eden WT-550, WT-800, WT-1205, etc. and use those amps with the 210XST cabinet vs. the Ampeg SVT-4 Pro head. Eden Amps are way cleaner and will give you the right mix (i.e. best amp and cab combination). Once you hear it, I think you'll hear exactly what I am talking about.

Tim
Thanks for your suggestion. The Eden cabs sound great. The WT-550 sounded great. If the WTX500 sounds anything like the WT-550, it will be a real contender.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Roosevelt Allen

Tim
If the WTX500 sounds anything like the WT-550, it will be a real contender.

Yep, I have not doubt. I have the WTX-260 and love it. I use it mainly as a DI to FOH. However, pushing a 210XST(4) alone or a 210XLT(8) and 212XLT(8) together would put a smile on your face.

[Kirk P Brosius]

Hello all,

Schroeder Mini12+ 4o
" 1210R 4o
" 410L gen II 4o
Eden 210XL 8o (not very often)

I've been using a MarkBass SD800, with any of the listed cabs, at different sized gigs for about a year with great results.

The Mini12+ and the SD nake a truely "mini-rig" and works very well for small to med sized gigs. The 410L is just a monster!!!! It weighsjust 56# and is a very east load-in. The rig works very well for the med-to large sized gigs. I tilt the cab back with a 2X4 and never have an issue with hearing just what I put into it. Most of the medium-sized gigs get the 1210R. The EQ on the SD is easy to work with and the power is just about amazing!! The could easily push two 410's or a couple of 810's!!!! YIKES!!!!!!!

Thanks for moment of your time, Kirk

[Tim Bishop]

My newest favorite Eden head is the WT-405. Wow! It may not be the lightest head on the market, but the flexibility and options are well worth the extra weight. I'm glad I purchased this amp while it was still made in the U.S. Now, Eden is sending their stuff to China . Because of this and going forward, I won't be sending any $'s to China to support their booming economy. Fortunately, I have all the Eden gear I'll need going forward: U.S. made and proud of it!