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Old 07-31-2007, 07:53 PM
Charles Federle Charles Federle is offline
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Default Xavier Jacquet ?

When I first bought this bass it was advertised as a 1746 Mougenout. That idea has been dismissed, but now it is though of as possible an Xavier Jacquet or at least that school of making. I am curious to see what opinions everyone else has on it. Without a label it has been a bit of a mystery bass but I have considered myself lucky to have it.

Measurements
Body length 44 1/8"
Upper Bout 15 1/2"
Middle Bout 14 7/8"
Lower Bout 26 7/8"
String Length 42"
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Last edited by Charles Federle; 07-31-2007 at 10:29 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2007, 10:12 PM
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Thumbs up Nice..

Interesting Bass and beautiful wood. I have not seen any other Jacquet Basses that look like that. Most have been Gamba shape and one I have seen on-line in the UK is slightly different but not quite like yours either.

Here it is;



Most French Basses do not have an upper angle bend. That is more of an Italian thing as far back as Maggini and d'Salo. It has been copied and used in England and Germany as well but rare on French Basses.
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Old 08-06-2007, 08:28 PM
Charles Federle Charles Federle is offline
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Default

My bass has always been a bit hard to track down. Though I have looked at the one you posted up here and I almost wonder if the shoulders of mine might have been cut down. I don't think so, but was a passing thought. What I have found that is a rather similar to mine though is this Gand Jacquet.

http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrume...1895/Gand.html

I see the similarities mostly in the scroll and top. Hopefully one day the mystery will be a bit closer to being solved, but the speculation is some of the fun with this bass
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:19 PM
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Cool another old Frenchy...



with this caption under the pics; Vend Contrebasse Pillement (Père). Les bois sont estimés de 1640. Entièrement restaurée. Fabriquée dans l'atelier de Guarnerius Del Gesu avec ses bois lors de sa résidence à Cremone.
Contrebasse très puissante, avec un grave très généreux et un timbre particulier. Magnifiques mécaniques. Vernis chaleureux.

If he is saying that
Pillement (Père) is from 1640, then he is at least 100-150 years too early. (edit) I checked my Book and he worked from 1775 - 1820 in Mirecourt. The Paris thing was made up by him but never worked there. Here is another Pillement (Père) c.1790, 150 years later.

The two Basses however look completely different in every thing from the model, the FF, the shoulders and even the varnish. WOB had another Pillement just like the link shows a few years ago in a reddish varnish and almost the exact same Bass. Something doesn't seem right if they are both the same maker.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:44 PM
Charles Federle Charles Federle is offline
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Using Babelfish I found a quick and dirty translation that should shed some light and have everything make a bit more sense.

Contrebasse Pilement (father) Sells. Wood are estimated of 1640. Entirely restored. Manufactured in the workshop of Guarnerius Del Gesu with its wood at the time of its residence with Cremone. Very Powerful double bass, with a very generous low register and a particular stamp. Splendid mechanics. Cordial varnish.
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:16 PM
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Question Guarnerius Del Gesu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Federle View Post
Using Babelfish I found a quick and dirty translation that should shed some light and have everything make a bit more sense.

Contrebasse Pilement (father) Sells. Wood are estimated of 1640. Entirely restored. Manufactured in the workshop of Guarnerius Del Gesu with its wood at the time of its residence with Cremone. Very Powerful double bass, with a very generous low register and a particular stamp. Splendid mechanics. Cordial varnish.
That is a tall claim. I doubt that any of the great Cremona makers made any DBs in that period. The Bass looks nice but a Joseph Guarneri? That would be a first I think.
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:57 PM
Charles Federle Charles Federle is offline
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Default

Interesting site though, ran across this

To me this seems very close to my instrument, I think they are calling it a Derazet. Not a maker that I have ever heard of before. Does any know anything about this maker? I have to admit that with French instruments there are so many subtle details that you have to pick out making it rather hard to pin down an instrument by an unknown maker, even it if is a bit odd like mine.

Even this one makes me think of my bass in a way, at least if it had violin corners

Last edited by Charles Federle; 08-14-2007 at 03:32 AM.
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  #8  
Old 08-14-2007, 08:00 AM
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Lightbulb It's 'Derazey'

I think the spelling is Derazey. There was the father Honore and the son Justin. The father worked independently and for Vuillaume as well as a Bass maker for him.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:41 AM
ChrisTurner ChrisTurner is offline
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Default Possible Xavier Jacquet Bass

Hi everyone, I was wondering if someone could shed some light on my bass.

I have had it for some time now and it is obviously a french bass and described by many here in Aus as a surprisingly powerful and dark french Bass in the lower register

. I have had 2 names attributed to it by two separate luthiers ( both gave both names).

Jacquet or Claudot.

Of the jacquet basses i have seen it is more likely to be that than a claudot as was said to me.

Any thoughts.

Also if anyone knows what something like this is worth an insight would be greatly appreciated

There are no labels on it, however there is a small engraving on the shoulder that says either 1840 or 1940 not entirely sure. It is however comfortably in the mid 19th century in terms of age.

It was a 3 stringer at some point as the peg box is very tight for the 4th peg and it is put on backwards to fit. There are 3 supposed original tuning machines and a newer one on the D string that was added at the time of conversion.


Cheers Everyone
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:04 AM
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Cool well.

The pictures are quite dark. I wish they were loaded on the forum and not a zip file. That would make viewing comparisons a lot easier.

Basses from the mid to late 19th century in France have many similarities between the makers from what I have seen. Basses attributed to either the Claudots, Jacquets, Barbe families or even a few more names often look nearly identical. Is it possible that some of the components came from the same shops or workers? Were there 'brands' being produced then? One thing is for sure and that is the 'Guilds' were definitely in place back then. This means that Scroll from several bass brands (or shops) could be from the same Scroll maker as well as the varnishing. There was a 'Carving Guild (Union)', Painting (varnishing?) Guild and a Violin makers Guild. These are all that I know about concerning instruments but all the Machines we see are from the same shops as well so add that Guild as well.

On dates let me remind you that 3-string Basses were still being offered in the 1920s from both France and England. Although they were available to order, the 4-string method was already taking hold worldwide as the standard by at least 1870 or so if not earlier in some countries.

The scratched in date on your Bass is just that. Something that someone scratched in and even altered it from 1940 to 1840. I would personally not take much belief into your bass being any earlier than 1860 or so and possible later. The style looks to me like a Jacquet shop bass (or Barbe or Claudot.. lol) and from the latter part of the 19th century rather then the mid-century date you have now on it.

Hey, look on the bright side. Everyone believes it's French so at least we all agree on that. I have seen many basses where even guessing the country is even difficult. This one, French Mirecourt-'School' Bass, latter 19th century. That's as far as I would go on this for now.
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:33 AM
ChrisTurner ChrisTurner is offline
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Thumbs up

Thanks for the swift reply sheds abit more light on it. Just wish i could know everything. I always imagine some old guy working away in his shop lol.

With regards to the photos i had trouble because they were quite high resolution and im not really sure how to bring them down. Any ideas?

All i have been told in the past with regards to date is that it points to mid - late 19th century. In your mind what characteristic gives it that indication ?

It would be wonderful to know who carved the 1940 in it at some point and why as that is during parts of 2nd world war.... where was it etc etc lol stuff i will never know.

Cheers once again great forum you have here much better than anything else out there.
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:24 AM
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Lightbulb humm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisTurner View Post
Thanks for the swift reply sheds abit more light on it. Just wish i could know everything. I always imagine some old guy working away in his shop lol.

With regards to the photos i had trouble because they were quite high resolution and im not really sure how to bring them down. Any ideas?

All i have been told in the past with regards to date is that it points to mid - late 19th century. In your mind what characteristic gives it that indication ?

It would be wonderful to know who carved the 1940 in it at some point and why as that is during parts of 2nd world war.... where was it etc etc lol stuff i will never know.

Cheers once again great forum you have here much better than anything else out there.
For Pics, read my son Mike's post here!

On your Bass dates, I am just comparing it to others I have seen and that is quite a bit of them. Most of then attributed to one of the Jacquet's, some to Barbe and some to Claudot.

I have played many French basses and owned 2 nice ones myself. One was attributed to Gustave Bernardel and the other to Barbe. The 7/8ths Violin-Cello model Bernadel was quite typical but the big Gamba 7/8ths Barbe could have been something else. We will never know as we were not there to watch them being made. That's the only 'real' way to know. Seeing IS believing. A Brand on a Bass does NOT mean that is the actual maker. It just means it's their Brand and selling AS.

Shop basses in Germany from the Wilfers and others labeled in this country as Juzek, Pfretzschner, Morelli and others are just that, Brands that were imported by Marketers. This manufacturing style was not limited to Germany. This I think is the reason we see so many French Basses that look alike. Oh, did I mention Lamy? That was another big shop that exported many Basses in both Violin and Gamba shape. In the turn of the 19th-20th century USA catalog from the importer, the 4-string model was an additional $6. That's SIX U$D extra. The 3-string was basic model offered and some French shops offered basses in 3, 4, or 5-string. Would you like 'Fries' with that?

From 20 feet away (maybe even closer), a Lamy, Jacquet, Barbe or Claudot Gamba model basses can all fit in the same mold. What does that mean?
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:18 PM
ChrisTurner ChrisTurner is offline
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:18 AM
ChrisTurner ChrisTurner is offline
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Default - Sked james reply

Sorry for some reason i can't send private messages and since its nothing really private i didn't worry about it rather than not replying



James.


I am located in sydney.

With regards to your basses being dull it on the E and A, it is a common attribute of french basses. For some reason my bass has an amazingly powerful lower end. I think who ever put in the current bass bar did a really good job because i get comments on it when ever i take it to someone to look at it. Eg dave ellis Neil brawley.

Do you have any photos of your basses? I would love to have a look?

With regards to basses in aus they aren't so difficlt to find, you just wont find them in shops. The shops tend to rip the seller off with high commissions and bullshit about gst so its easier to sell privately and in the tight knit bass community in sydney there is always something available. Also to mention in sydney particularly SSO there are amazing world class quality basses eg my old teacher has a Kennedy Lott and Vincenzo Panormo and many other basses of the same makers amongst other professionals in sydney with many other famous makers names. Otherwise you just have to travel and if your after a good quality italian or english bass the cost of the travel relative to the instrument is insignificant.

Cheers

Chris


Does your bass have an attributed maker?

What do you reckon a Jacquet Bass is worth in todays market in AUS?
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  #15  
Old 07-27-2010, 03:23 PM
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Lightbulb Xavier Jacquet ?

Ok, after doing some research as well as having a few Jacquet's in my hands I have looked up enough information from various sources to report what I know.

The Family of makers of the main 4 Jacquet's of the 19th century does not have an Xavier Jacquet unless it's the 3rd generation towards and into the 20th century.

The Makers were;
Joseph Xavier Jacquet, aka Jacquet-Pillement, as he married Cecile Pillement (daughter of Pillement Pere' ?, I think) in 1837.
One of his labels is marked;

V.X. Jacquet
-Pillement-

and signed
Jacquet
Xavier


... as that's what the signature looks like to me. HE was the father of the other 3 makers and the first Luthier of the Family. I have seen 3 basses by him. One of them I own now. All 3 have the same shape, varnish, scroll and ffs as best one man can duplicate himself. They date from 1840-1850.

His eldest son was Gabriel Xavier, b.1838.

His next/middle son was just Gabriel, no Xavier in the name, b.1848. Gabriel married Marie J.S. Gand (daughter of the Gand family) in 1878 and was then known as Jacquet-Gand, using his wife's maiden name and NOT associated with the then Gand & Bernadel firm..

His 3rd son was Jean Claude Joseph, known just as Joseph G. b.1850 and again, no Xavier in his name either. He worked for a time with his brother Gabriel but then married Justine M. Barbezant and took over her brothers firm and became known as Jacquet-Barbezant. They supposedly made the French basses for Riverie-Hawkes in the 1880's until that firm dissolved in 1889 and became Hawkes & Son and then made mostly a Panormo model in Germany.

So, of the 4 makers, the wife's maiden name was used on 3 of them. lol

Now Gabriel Xavier's wife's sister married Luthier Paul Bailly so I guess you can say they were all chopping wood on both sides of all of the families.

More interesting genealogy is that Gabriel's daughters married into 'wood' as well. One daughter to Leon Mougenot, son of Georges of whom I have a Vuillaume model bass from and the other to Eugene Sartory the 'God' of Bass Bows, in my opinion.. In later sale advertisements we see a combined advert of Leon Mougenot - Jacquet-Gand as one.

Back on the Xavier Jacquet, The Father J.X. or V.X. as he called himself is known by one source as X-Jacquet and 'O'-Jacquet by another. One source has Gabriel Xavier as 'X'-Jacquet as well. Maybe being 10 years older the Gabriel, he used his fathers stamp after taking over the shop. Who knows?

So, 'X' marks the spot but WHAT spot? That is the question.. lol

Hey, they all made nice basses. If well restored and taken care of you can play them in a professional Orchestra. What more can you ask? Oh, play it on a Jazz gig. Forgot.. My Jacquet-Pillement here sounds good with the fingers and loud with the Bow as well. It's a doubler...
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