5-String set-up Q..

[Ken Smith]

I posted this as well in the String section but I feel it is as much a set-up issue as it is a string issue if not more.

I started this over a year ago when working on the 6th. I had originally flex 92s, G & D and Perms, A, E and B. I then put the 92s on the A & E as well and just kept the Perm B on. Then after all that, I ended up doing the Storm on my Gilkes which was out on trial when I started this thread. Having a 41" SL made the Ext. fingering easier and closer. Also, I had just put a new set of EVs on the Bass and all the notes just popped out nicely. Then, I sold the 5er so it was no more choices between the Ext. or 5er for the low note works.

Now I have another 5er just in and this Bass is even bigger than the last one. The new one is bigger everywhere. If that was a 7/8, then this one is at least a 4/4 if not a 5/4. The Lower bout just over 30". The center bout is from 17-18". The body is about 48". I will post a page later when I take the pics but for now, I am back on the String hunt..

So, the Bs mentioned (not in any order) were Perms, Spiros (red mittels?), Bels, Heli's (both types) and Super Flexs.. I have also myself used a Jaegar Blue/med. and have seen 92s, Orig FC, FC and Orig Flex Bs pictured as well on European Basses.

Also, my new 5er is only about a 41" string length. This is due to the high placement of the FFs.

So.. now that we have had a year or so since we last discussed this, have any feelings changes as to what the better Bs are to try?. This Bass has Obligatos on now with a FC 'B' on it. The B feels too soft. With the Bridge curve, the B is so much lower to the body than the E and A. Should I move the B to a different Post like I do with reversing the E and As on 4-strings?

[Craig Regan]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

this one is at least a 4/4 if not a 5/4. The Lower bout just over 30". The center bout is from 17-18". The body is about 48". I will post a page later when I take the pics but for now, I am back on the String hunt..

Sounds like a Blimp!

I'll look forward to seeing the pictures.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Craig Regan

Sounds like a Blimp!

I'll look forward to seeing the pictures.

Well, if this Bass could Fly, it would need its own sky..

Here she is, 'My New MONSTER..


We had to use the wall to take the pics rather then the usual door like we did with the Prescott a few years ago. The Bass is taller than the Doorway!

[David Powell]

OK, now I'm jealous....

[David Powell]

Tricky business indeed with the C bout so wide. The neck angle looks about the same as my 5-er but my C bout is a couple of inches smaller, as is the rest of my bass except the upper bout;- and the 43" string. That is a big bodied bass. I don't think I've ever seen one with a 30" lower bout except that one.

I think you are on the right track with the neck pitch increase. You'll get a taller bridge and the difference between the break angle of the A string and other strings will be less proportionally. I have often wondered why (on my bass) the bridge and fingerboard (radius) is a bit large resulting in a more gentle arch than some 5 string basses I've seen. I think this is why the bass speaks evenly across the strings. It is a bit more touchy to play it aggressively, however I am now learning to play closer to the bridge and that has helped immensely.

With 5 strings it is an optimization problem: String access vs. even sonority across the strings. I think most 5 strings will have a dominant A string since it has the greatest break angle over the bridge. If you get the bridge too tall though in an attempt to even things out then the whole bass might lose some at the bottom end?

Of course the mensur will also increase a little and all the reference points will move up the neck a miniscule amount but starting at 41", you've got a long way to go before mensur is an issue. I'd say definitely go up on the pitch of the neck and take a careful look at the bridge and fingerboard arch at the same time.

Personally, (mind you I have no business making this assertion) I just think the strings are too short to drive the bass. It's a bit like having a bored out 350 engine with shortened rods. Longer strings have more mass moving, more central deflection in the vibration and deliver more energy to the body. My prediction: This bass will have a very low voice, but not such a loud one. And that might be a really nice voice.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

Tricky business indeed with the C bout so wide. The neck angle looks about the same as my 5-er but my C bout is a couple of inches smaller, as is the rest of my bass except the upper bout;- and the 43" string. That is a big bodied bass. I don't think I've ever seen one with a 30" lower bout except that one.

I think you are on the right track with the neck pitch increase. You'll get a taller bridge and the difference between the break angle of the A string and other strings will be less proportionally. I have often wondered why (on my bass) the bridge and fingerboard (radius) is a bit large resulting in a more gentle arch than some 5 string basses I've seen. I think this is why the bass speaks evenly across the strings. It is a bit more touchy to play it aggressively, however I am now learning to play closer to the bridge and that has helped immensely.

With 5 strings it is an optimization problem: String access vs. even sonority across the strings. I think most 5 strings will have a dominant A string since it has the greatest break angle over the bridge. If you get the bridge too tall though in an attempt to even things out then the whole bass might lose some at the bottom end?

Of course the mensur will also increase a little and all the reference points will move up the neck a miniscule amount but starting at 41", you've got a long way to go before mensur is an issue. I'd say definitely go up on the pitch of the neck and take a careful look at the bridge and fingerboard arch at the same time.

Personally, (mind you I have no business making this assertion) I just think the strings are too short to drive the bass. It's a bit like having a bored out 350 engine with shortened rods. Longer strings have more mass moving, more central deflection in the vibration and deliver more energy to the body. My prediction: This bass will have a very low voice, but not such a loud one. And that might be a really nice voice.

Well David, there is nothing 'quiet' at all about this Bass. It is a 'long range cannon' to my ear and shakes the floor, walls and my own innards when played.

On the angles, yes it will increase break points but in the set-up of the Bridge and Fingerboard relations is where it will be most important. We need about 26-27mm spacing for easy bowing. I have seen 25mm and 26mm. Those are tight. The arch of the Bridge is needed to give a minimum relief of 5mm for the inner alternating strings when measuring on top of the Bridge under every other String and looking at the space under the middle string as in 1-3 the 2nd middle, 2-4, the 3rd middle and 3-5 the 4th middle. This is the Bow arch needed and THEN, the FB under it to match in a way to get the graduated height of about 5-6mm/G and 10-12mm/B or so. A shallower radius maybe or whatever depending on the player BUT this issue MUST be addressed at the time of set-up so that the Fingerboard shaping (replacing if needed) and Bridge arc match playability wise. The Neck Pitch problem is to allow the clearance for the Bowing of the outer strings. That is a first and a must. All else as far as break angles are concerned are secondary in importance by far to the playability and bowing of the Bass. If there are volume problems due to the various angles per string, this can be handled with string mixing. I would not consider compromising the needed set-up for string volume as far as evenness is concerned.

On the String length question once more, I think that the large Pollmann 5ers are about 41" mensur as well. I had one on loan a few years back and there was no shortage of power there. This is the most popular 5er used in Orchestras today that I know of. With the Pitch increased I might see 41 1/4" or maybe a bit more. This is fine for me and the extra length welcomed at the least.

[Ken Smith]

I had another HUGE 5er loaned to me a few months back. The B-string was off the Bridge with some foam under the string touching the Bridge and upper edge of the Top, slightly tightened with only the regular 4-strings tuned up.

On this Bass I just did something similar BUT, I cut different notches in the Bridge that are wider for 4-string and moved all the Strings over. Now it's like a regular 4-string with the 5th string on the side to be used (with the other 4 strings moved back) for when I actually need that low B.

What I have now is a HUGE 4-string Bass with the dimensions of a full sized 5-string. Sounds DEEP.