Juzek NY ?

[Brian Casey]

copied from my post on TB ( hope that's OK - I'd like Ken to see it before tomorrow night...)


I've got an appointment to look at a bass tomorrow that's described by the seller (from Craigslist) as a ca. 1900 Juzek made in New York. This information was based on inscirptions inside the instrument, but I have not personally verified this. The seller also erroneously (I hope) continues to describe this bass as a 'Jasek', but when I responded 'Juzek' didn't correct me.

Looking through the threads yielded by a search for Juzek, this attribution to NY doesn't seem to make sense - or am I missing something?

The seller is asking $3000, but mentioned a willingness to negotiate, based on the fingerboard starting to separate from the neck. If I like the way it sounds and plays, I'm seriously considering buying this and having it repaired - only my third purchase in the last 20 years. I've played a few other basses recently for comparison, so I have an idea of what I'm looking for sound-wise, but I feel like I'm going into this decision under-qualified from an investment standpoint.

Investment-wise, I'm also concerned about re-sale value. Basically, I have a policy of investing in instruments instead of keeping thousands of dollars in savings for a rainy day fund. I don't really NEED another bass, but I have about $3000 available that isn't earning significant interest that I can spend.

Any thoughts on what I should look for when checking out this bass in person or in terms of what level Juzek it is?

Any thoughts would be appreciated, and most effective before Thursday evening, PST.

- Tanglehead

[Ken Smith]

Well, as you may know from my Sticky thread here on Juzek that these are German/Czech Shop Basses all around 100%. Their import business started after WWI about 1920 or later. I don't know when they started buying Basses but I am sure there were some in the '20s but not positive. The earliest dated Basses I have seen were 1936 and 1939 which were labeled and dated. The label of Anton Wilfer is on some of them with or without the additional Juzek label. It has been the Wilfer family from the start that has always supplied their carved Basses according to Bobby Juzek (son of Robert Juzek who is the brother of John Juzek. Robert was the head of the Juzek firm using John's name. John, a violin maker in Prague never made any Basses and I doubt that much if anything at all came from Prague either with most of the shops on the German/Czech border around Shoenbach, Bubenreuth and Markneukirchin). The Plywood models were also supplied by the Lang firm in Germany but this is most probable after WWII.

To help you better, I would need to see the Bass here in pics. Front, Back, close-up of the back button by the neck, side profile, scroll front, side and back, any and all cracks and seam openings etc etc etc.

I can tell you in a matter of seconds or rather, as fast as I can type what the Bass needs and the cost estimates to restore it but then again, those costs depend greatly on who does the work and how far they go as far as full restoration like I have done or 'just get it patched up and working' which many others do which is a temporary fix but sometimes a waste of money in the long run.

Many of these Basses are worth less than zero dollars as the repairs needed can cost more than the total value post restoration. Fixing a 200k Italian Bass or a Juzek can cost almost the same because time is time and 10-20k is not a lot for an expensive Bass to get it right but on a Juzek type Bass, keep it in the low thousands if possible.

In the late '60s a new Juzek went for $200. carved on up to $900. for the top end 7/8ths orchestra Bass. Used on the street, $100-$400 all day long!!!

Now, a Juzek sells on average from the low to mid thousands depending on condition and some have gone over 10k. Why over 10k? I'm not sure because I didn't see the Bass and the Juzek market is often mis-informed on the buyers end as far as value and repair costs as well as existing condition and past/existing repairs!

So, show me some pics and I will tell you my opinion. That's all I can do for now.

[Brian Casey]

Thanks, Ken.

I actually went to see a couple other basses last night and the seller knows of this specific Juzek and it's seller. He didn't question the sellers intentions, but he did say that this 1900 NY Juzek, while truly being a Juzek, is in need of complete restoration. He suggested I go take a look, and to look at several other shops, so I don't question his reporting this. (He's also well respected in our town, so I don't think anyone is out to mislead anyone on this instrument...)

I'm still going to look at it, but while I have the money to spend, I don't have more to sink into repairs. While I'm excited about getting a nice older carved bass, I'm not going to rush into it. I need to get on more instruments and figure out how to feel the difference. I came home last night after playing two European instruments over 100 years old ( granted they both needed some work) and played my Christopher 7/8 401 and loved what I heard - beyond just being comfortable... Is that the opinion of a novice, or what ?

Anyway, thanks for your quick reply. If I can get my camera to work right I'll snap a couple pics and try to post them. If it looks workable, I'd still like to keep it under consideration.

Brian Casey

[Brian Casey]

So this suject appears over on the Talkbass forum as well, and there I gave it an update that I'll paraphrase here, followed by a further request for elaboration:

I went to see this bass and it's got the Juzek label inside, but I can't determine a date. I like the way the bass feels and plays, except the fingerboard rattle, which is a result of the gap between the board and the neck - you can see through the gap to the other side...

So, my biggest concerns are that this instrument is beat. The scroll has been broken off at some point and was replaced with glue and screws. The body cracks have mostly been repaired, but the box still rattles, mostly sympathatic with the open D string and similar frequencies. The endpin is a little squirrelly and the whole thing will need a rebuild to become the bass I'd like to have. With a $3K asking price, it just seems like I'm getting into a can of worms I can't really afford, and even if it was restored to the best health it can have, I don't know that it will be solid enough for my tastes?

Is it possible that the damage of this bass' long life would be more than any repair can correct to bring it to the value of any other 100 year old Juzek? Am I going to be losing money?

Just wanting as many opinions as possible....

brian

[Ken Smith]

There is no such thing as a 100 year old Juzek, sorry. These are Czech/German Shop Basses made after 1920 and only a small amount around made in the first 20 years in comparison to after wwII.

A restoration will be more than the Bass might be worth. If I were selling a Bass and this was your trade-in, I would think twice carefully about taking it even for free.

Walk away and find something else. There are 100s of Basses for sale that are in better condition and with better repairs. Keep looking, you will find something. Be patient.

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Be patient.

+1
rule number one for bass-buying

[Brian Casey]

Thanks - that's the kind of perspective I was looking for. (Don't pass this up vs. walk away...)

Also, to clarify I used the term "100 year old" loosely - to me early 20th Century is close enough to 100 years ago to refer to it that way. I understand the distinction, though...

Thanks again.

Brian

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Casey

Thanks - that's the kind of perspective I was looking for. (Don't pass this up vs. walk away...)

Also, to clarify I used the term "100 year old" loosely - to me early 20th Century is close enough to 100 years ago to refer to it that way. I understand the distinction, though...

Thanks again.

Brian

How do you know it's early 20th century and not mid 20th century? If you can show some decent pics of the back and under the neck button in the back as well as the scroll/gears. I might be able to come close on the period. The Top only helps varnish wise and the ribs would be good to look at as well.