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Old 05-02-2013, 03:19 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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Hello all!
I am new to the forum and am looking for advice (who isn't here right?). I am new to the bass world. Started about 8 months ago. Purchased a '48 Kay Junior Bass. I am only 4'11" thus the reason for a small bass. The purchase was very hasty and I realized after bringing her home that it had major issues and a local luthier asked me if it were at all possible to get my money back. A few days later my sweetheart found a 1/4 size Corelli and gave it to me for my Birthday. It was used but looks brand new but the sound is just not to my liking. Too quiet, due to the size and/or quality. Englehardt seems to be what people like around where I am at. However, I have some questions. I have been around and played enough music with this instrument and others to know that spending a few extra bucks to get a good instrument is so worth it. Especially if it's something that I can grow into with experience. So...tell me about 1/2 size basses and who makes good ones as I am not sure I will get what I am looking for in a 1/4. I was checking out the 3/4 Englehardts and New Americans. The ES-1 & 9 are advertising as better quality woods. How is that so if it's laminate. Are all laminates pretty much the same. How are New American's different from the Englehardts being both laminates. There's a significant difference in price. I would love some advice and and thank you in advance.

Last edited by Melissa Washburn; 05-02-2013 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Add more info
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:46 PM
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Ok, your height and reach will make it difficult to play some 3/4 sized basses but some smaller 3/4s or what they now call 5/8ths sized instruments (Europe's old 1/2 size or small 3/4s) might fit you better.

What is the string length of that 1/2 sized Kay bass and what is wrong with it? Maybe a few pictures posted will shed more light on it and maybe get a second opinion here, for free!

Shorter length basses (1/2, 1/4), real carved or plywood will have less 'bass' sound than the same basses in a full 3/4 size. That being the case from my experience, you might end up playing harder to get the sound out on a smaller bass than a larger one like a 34/4 variety.

In reading your profile about what music you play, I think a modern laminate bass would fit you best. Maybe a 1/2 or 3/4 size depending on the specs of the bass. There are American brands available new and old, Chinese brands and Romanian brands that come in these sizes.

The best shop to buy from is a bass specialty shop nearest your location so you can get service and a proper 'easy-to-play set-up. Still, I would like to see that old 1/2 sized Kay because, fixing that might be your best option.

For the Kay, I suggest you contact Jerry Fretwell as Fretwellbass.com as he IS a KAY specialist in buying, selling and repairing. He can also play bass besides being I nice gentleman to deal with. I have had him here in my shop before picking up Kay basses that came thru so he is my go-to guy for anything Kay. He also travels around so contact him and go from there.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:56 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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Thank you Ken for you input. Tomorrow when I get a chance I will send you some pictures. As for the string length how do I measure or where do I start and end the measurement on the strings? Thanks for pointing me to Jerry. There's a lot to think about and learn.

As for that Kay...it seems to have water damage. There's a crack down the middle of the back, cracks on either side of the saddle, a screw has been put in place through the base of the neck. It's very dried out and you can separate the layers in the f-holes. I spent money on strings, bridge, saddle and tailpiece cable but after all the parts arrive I feared that putting the new strings on might collapse the front. So it's been sitting. I believe that it could be a great sounding bass just from plucking the strings it came with (cat gut).

Pictures will follow tomorrow. Thank you again.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa Washburn View Post
Thank you Ken for you input. Tomorrow when I get a chance I will send you some pictures. As for the string length how do I measure or where do I start and end the measurement on the strings? Thanks for pointing me to Jerry. There's a lot to think about and learn.

As for that Kay...it seems to have water damage. There's a crack down the middle of the back, cracks on either side of the saddle, a screw has been put in place through the base of the neck. It's very dried out and you can separate the layers in the f-holes. I spent money on strings, bridge, saddle and tailpiece cable but after all the parts arrive I feared that putting the new strings on might collapse the front. So it's been sitting. I believe that it could be a great sounding bass just from plucking the strings it came with (cat gut).

Pictures will follow tomorrow. Thank you again.
String length is the vibrating string. Nut to bridge. And, it's not cat cut. There are no cats big enough unless you mean tigers and lions. It is sheep gut.. lol
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:49 AM
Eric Hochberg Eric Hochberg is offline
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You could also try James Condino in Asheville. http://kaybassrepair.com
Very knowledgeable and builds great looking instruments, too.

I see he has a neckless M1 for sale. Maybe he could customize a neck with shorter string length for you...
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg View Post
You could also try James Condino in Asheville. http://kaybassrepair.com
Very knowledgeable and builds great looking instruments, too.

I see he has a neckless M1 for sale. Maybe he could customize a neck with shorter string length for you...
Shortening the neck could push the note down into the body making the upper notes near the heel harder to reach. This is usually not a good idea unless the neck is an Eb or more already.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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Ken thank you for the correction on the gut strings. I guess the all "knowing" one I bought the bass told me wrong. Sheep...got it now! I have found the pictures and am posting them.

Eric I appreciate the intel on Asheville. I will have to plan a road trip that way soon! Thank you!
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:32 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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More pictures!
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:41 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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The last 6 pictures of this bass! Thank you for looking at it!
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:38 PM
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Thumbs up Good news..

Ok, believe it or not, if this bass size/model is a good fit for you, then have the bass restored. There is nothing there that can not be fixed and made to work again. Old basses always have a rough life and they get fixed and fixed again for lifetimes. The bass I am playing tonight has tons of repairs on it and it is the feel and sound that I go for, not the looks.

I think also that fixing this bass is going to cost you less than buying something new that for one, you don't know how it will be in time and two, how it will sound. Stay with the 1/2 sized Kay. It's a good fit for you and it's a classic!
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:55 PM
Shawn Charniga Shawn Charniga is offline
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Melissa,

Not to clash with our host, but should you decide to abandon the baby Kay I have a lead for you if you're willing to buy blind through the mail.

A luthier I know in Massachusetts named Mark Leue told me recently he lucked into a few unusual, small Shen basses he was selling for $1100. This batch was mistakenly made with a small 5/8 body and a 42" 3/4 neck. That could be the best of both worlds -- enough string length to get a good sound mated to a manageable body.

These basses have solid wood tops and sides so they would require more care than a battle-axe Kay. Just a thought.

SC
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Old 05-04-2013, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Shawn Charniga View Post
Melissa,

Not to clash with our host, but should you decide to abandon the baby Kay I have a lead for you if you're willing to buy blind through the mail.

A luthier I know in Massachusetts named Mark Leue told me recently he lucked into a few unusual, small Shen basses he was selling for $1100. This batch was mistakenly made with a small 5/8 body and a 42" 3/4 neck. That could be the best of both worlds -- enough string length to get a good sound mated to a manageable body.

These basses have solid wood tops and sides so they would require more care than a battle-axe Kay. Just a thought.

SC
Personally, I think a 42" string length would be a challenge for her to play. Playing in the lower positions, a 42" bass takes some stretch to play in tune. I have played some basses of mine that are 41 1/4 and down to 40 1/2" and those are quite a bit easier to play. On the other hand, I think for her use and height, the 1/2 size Kay would be easier and more fun to play. If this Shen was under a 41" length, I would say it's a possibility. I think a 1/2 Kay is probably between 37-39" length but I am not sure.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:21 PM
Shawn Charniga Shawn Charniga is offline
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Her H-10 is basically the same as an M-3, which has a mensure of just over 35". That model is basically a 1/4 neck on a 1/2 body (if I remember correctly) and the few that I've played do not put out much sound. I was wrong about the mensure on the Shen -- it's actually 40.5". Here's a link to the model I was talking about. This one is sold but Mark may still have one.

http://www.uptonbass.com/Shen-SB190-...s-Double-Bass/
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:48 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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Ken,
Thank you for the input after looking at the pictures. Did you mean fix or restore? I am thinking you meant to just fix the instrument. I just measured the string length and it is 34.5". When you guys are referring to the size of the bass and what would be good for me are you just referring to the body? It is 62" from top to bottom. I think we are going to make the repairs on it. And see how she does. I would love to restore. A big piece of laminate broke off the other night moving it. We'll see. I do appreciate your help. I may have to come by your shop someday when I am on a layover or a road trip to the NE to see my family...I drive right up I-78 to get home. Thank you!
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:52 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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Shawn,
Thank you as well for your help. At this point I won't buy an instrument sight unseen. I am one who has to touch, play and hear the instrument before I make a commitment. There are a lot of beautiful instruments out there. I have one that I will play until the right one comes along. I do love the Kay I have and want to get it playable. We'll see from there!

Thank you again!
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Melissa Washburn View Post
Ken,
Thank you for the input after looking at the pictures. Did you mean fix or restore? I am thinking you meant to just fix the instrument. I just measured the string length and it is 34.5". When you guys are referring to the size of the bass and what would be good for me are you just referring to the body? It is 62" from top to bottom. I think we are going to make the repairs on it. And see how she does. I would love to restore. A big piece of laminate broke off the other night moving it. We'll see. I do appreciate your help. I may have to come by your shop someday when I am on a layover or a road trip to the NE to see my family...I drive right up I-78 to get home. Thank you!
Ok, you have something like a 1/4 sized bass. Jerry Fretwell might be able to help you or the other name mentioned. Fix or restore to some mean the same. Keeping it mostly originally is to restore. That includes fixing it as well. For a plywood bass, you have a fraction of the work and expense of a carved bass. Restoring old basses, non-plywood can cost as much as a car. I have been there so I know. Contact Jerry. This bass you have is a similar scale in playing to a bass guitar. Enjoy it.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:02 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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Ken I did forget to mention why I jumped in and grabbed this Kay without keeping my head about me (looking it over thoroughly). A gentleman who owns a music shop nearby has a Brother who somehow came across the Kay. Both Brothers are champion banjo & guitar players so they've been all over the south playing music. The one with a music shop has played on the Opry stage and says he remembers that bass living at the Opry years ago. How true this is I don't know. There were no papers with the instrument and I was told it lived in a closet for the last 20 years until the woman who had it at the time died. So being a lover of country and bluegrass I got excited about this instruments past home. But unfortunately to have something I could play once I got it home was not the reality I was faced with and the luthier that I brought it to here in town responded by asking me if I could get my money back. I was crushed but it was then that my sweetheart found the Corelli and we decided to see if we could fix the Kay in the meantime so that I could play it. That's my story of the Kay!
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Melissa Washburn View Post
Ken I did forget to mention why I jumped in and grabbed this Kay without keeping my head about me (looking it over thoroughly). A gentleman who owns a music shop nearby has a Brother who somehow came across the Kay. Both Brothers are champion banjo & guitar players so they've been all over the south playing music. The one with a music shop has played on the Opry stage and says he remembers that bass living at the Opry years ago. How true this is I don't know. There were no papers with the instrument and I was told it lived in a closet for the last 20 years until the woman who had it at the time died. So being a lover of country and bluegrass I got excited about this instruments past home. But unfortunately to have something I could play once I got it home was not the reality I was faced with and the luthier that I brought it to here in town responded by asking me if I could get my money back. I was crushed but it was then that my sweetheart found the Corelli and we decided to see if we could fix the Kay in the meantime so that I could play it. That's my story of the Kay!
Well, it sounds like the Kay deserves to be played again in healthy condition. The costs to repair today are way more than the old Kay's once sold for but that's the same story with all old instruments. If you like how it feels as far as size, string length and body fit and the sound from what you can tell is what you like, then get an estimate of two from the guys that specialize in Kay basses and play it.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:35 AM
Shawn Charniga Shawn Charniga is offline
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Quote:
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Well, it sounds like the Kay deserves to be played again in healthy condition.
More than a few of the guys on TB and the rockabilly forum would fall over if they heard that one.

Melissa, definitely talk to Jerry Fretwell and James Condino. Both are great guys who love and respect these old dawgs, and seem to genuinely enjoy their preservation.

Thanks for your gracious reply. Hopefully next time I open my big mouth to offer advice, I say something useful! Best of luck to you and your basses.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:41 PM
Melissa Washburn Melissa Washburn is offline
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Thank you so much to Ken & Shawn. I appreciate both of your help!
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