The Lurker Speaks....

[Chip Diemond]

Ok… I’ll take my life in my hands and post something. And why not, for openers, my own thread in the ‘Bull Pit’? I’m a natural born lurker. I’ve lurked and continue to lurk the other place. I’ve lurked here since almost the first day. If truth were known, I’m intimidated by all you big-time cats. I play Bluegrass on an old C-1 with some pretty good players and I love it! I love the little kids dancing down front; I love the older folks singin’ along, and I love the guy in the back just standin’ there smilin’ and tappin’ his foot to the music I’m helpin’ to make. It brings tears to my eyes sometimes and that’s plenty enough for me.

It was really too bad that Mr. Smith felt the need to leave the other place. And I make no judgment on why that was necessary. I’m a person who enjoys and respects the ‘gruff old farts’ especially when they have what it takes to back up what it is they have to say, which Mr. Smith certainly does. Still and all, I think both sides suffer in a couple ways. The other place suffers greatly for the lack of Mr. Smith’s sometimes pithy but never irrelevant comments and this site suffers from lack of…. bluntly, the dumb newbie’s. The other thing is that there are those who took sides and as a result don’t much post either place… I for one miss them. The upright bass community in all its shades, suffers. It’s too bad there can’t be some rapprochement. The sum of the two is less than the whole…

So I guess that’s enough.. I’ll close with two questions:

1, Mr. Smith; why is it that you never use the word ‘upright’ in your eBay listings?

2. Am I welcome here?

Chip in Seattle

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Chip Diemond

So I guess that’s enough.. I’ll close with two questions:

1, Mr. Smith; why is it that you never use the word ‘upright’ in your eBay listings?

2. Am I welcome here?

Chip in Seattle

2) Welcome, yes, why not?

1) Upright? That is not the name of the Bass. It's just a slang description.

It is a Double Bass, String Bass, Contra Bass or just Bass.

The Cello is a sit down Bass while in most Orchestras the Double Bassists sit on a stool slanting their Bass as they play.

Even standing, it is not played Upright but rather at a slight angle. Before the Bass Guitar existed or in mass use which is played slightly Horizontal, it was called just the Bass. Look on the back of any Jazz record (that's what they were b4 CDs, records) and see after Piano they list just Bass and then Drums. Do they list acoustic Piano? What else is there? Do they list Upright Bass? What other Bass would you expect? You see Trumpet and Trombone but not Slide Trombone because they all or most have Slides. You do see Tenor or Also Sax, etc as there is more than one kind but in the Bass world of the Double Bass, other than various sizes and designs they are just Basses by description.

Do we say Bass and not Base! Principal Bass or First Base, not Short Stop? First Bass and not First Baseman!

Because I am one of the minorities in the world that know the difference between slang and proper/real names, I chose in writing mostly not to refer to it as an Upright Bass. Makes it sound as if there is another kind? Since I have been playing Bass and now in the Symphony, I haven't seen another type in my section.

In the commercial music word where either is used and mostly the Electric/BG, Upright is used to differentiate it from the Fender or Smith type Bass (are there other brands too?...lol).

Here in the DB World Upright is a given because we just can't get it under our Chin!

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Upright? That is not the name of the Bass. It's just a slang description.

It is a Double Bass, String Bass, Contra Bass or just Bass.

Contra is of Latin origin and means 'against'.
The Against Bass? Would that be more English?
I know a guy who has a bass made entirely of string. He calls it a 'string bass'.
If you look at your double bass when you're really p1ssed, do you see four basses?
I know that 'bass violin' is not technically accurate, but I think I'll use it because it sounds better that 'against bass'... which sounds like you have conflict with the instrument when playing it.

[stan haskins]

Originally Posted by Chip Diemond

The other thing is that there are those who took sides and as a result don’t much post either place…

Then there are idiots like me who keep posting in both places !

Welcome, Chip. I think bluegrass is cool. Go and give me suggestions in the "fiddle music" thread (Double bass playing, general)http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=216

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by stan haskins

Then there are idiots like me who keep posting in both places!

I also still post occasionally on TB, but like many others I lost the desire to be an active participant after the purge or what ever you want to call it. Although this site does not have the participation numbers of TB, I personally find that there seems to be a lot more adults (mentally) over here.

[Steve_M]

What purge was that, Bob?

[Bob Branstetter]

I doubt if anyone here wants to rehash that business over again. If you are interested, you can go to the TB forums and search Miscellaneous [DB] for "Ken Smith". There are still some threads left there from around January 2007 that will give you an idea of what happened.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I doubt if anyone here wants to rehash that business over again. If you are interested, you can go to the TB forums and search Miscellaneous [DB] for "Ken Smith". There are still some threads left there from around January 2007 that will give you an idea of what happened.

The actual Thread that all this happened in was deleted by me. There are Threads before and after but the main one I deleted which was actually created to smooth things out but I got caught in the crossfire.

The whole thing in my view was Money motivated as their main advertiser was over protected to the degree that the Mods would close, edit and delete posts if they shined any light in a direction which they felt were taboo. Those include the advertiser that owned most of the banner space and the Mods themselves regardless of what they say or who they personally attack or insult.

When I first joined TB it was to defend claims against my product, company and myself. I did that fairly well and in a short time including rallying many supporters. One of the flame throwers then was a Mod and today he still is a Mod. In this latest instance a member started making insulting comments about me which were off topic and off color as well. I asked that same Mod of a few years past to delete his off topic insulting comments or I will leave TB and delete my threads. He thought it was OK to air things out in MY thread which he them deemed an Airing Thread which it wasn't but served his justifications well. I had no business at all with this guy but he felt he needed to take aim like a sniper from behind TBs womb.

What we all didn't know then was that the guy attacking me on-line was just about to become a MOD in a day or so which was decided behind the scenes. Paul of TB warned me after that I was NOT allowed to say things about the Mods because they are Immune from actions. What that person did was days before he became a Mod and nothing to do at all with being a Mod or even the thread topic itself!

Keeping my word and my back against the wall I proceeded to delete THAT Thread which had personal insults and then spent the rest of the evening and most of the next day deleting my Posts and Threads. What I left was the ones about the Historical Basses which had a lot of input from others as well as older ones that couldn't be deleted anymore. I deleted about 600 threads out of almost 3,800 I had posted.

A few days later the Mod started his own thread about 'don't look at me' kind of thing saying he didn't delete the thread but rather I did. This thread grew a bit in a few days but the Mod never said what led me to do what I did. I mentioned how I was attacked out of color there and the Mod would not 'moderate' it as he should like he has in the past in a controlling 'thought police' manner for a certain advertiser which there is another thread as well about this.

I then made a comment directed at Paul (TB owner) 'what a Fxxxxing dog and pony show' you have here meaning that for a big advertiser he can plant shills and have all the negative comments and those of discovery deleted or edited but for the rest of us, we must take the 'censored/controlled' Forum or leave it!

I didn't spell out that word above in my Post with the xxxx's. Actually, Paul deleted it 2x and I dared him in the first attempt to leave my comment for all to see and understand what actually did happen. After all the questions of what happened, he reposts my 'fight back' post as if that was the actual reason why I am off of TB. NO, it was my reaction to what actually happened and not what did happen. After that, I was not able to Post or PM or even edit my own Profile because I was Blocked or Banned. I could Log in, read and search but could not reply or participate in anyway. Paul went on to add that I was NOT Banned and was gone on my own accord which was an outright lie. Then he added later that I could come back if I agreed to abide by his Rules which in my mind, I never broke. It was his 'Mod to be' that broke the rules by attacking me on-line but he couldn't admit that or take action because another Mod just quit in the midst of this 'thought police' accusations which was started by Jeff Bollbach and was justified in doing so and he needed him to replace the other Mod.

TBs money policies and Mod actions have a big part in this as well as the Mods actually being participants. Sort of a conflict of interest in my eye but hey, it's a public Forum. Now I'm gone an started my own, much smaller and non-commercial party as far as monies go. I have talked with Paul since and he says the same thing about an agreement. I told him to let me on as-is because I never broke the agreement before. This is his actual living now and his Orchestra job a second as far as I can tell.

I don't at all mind talking about this and TB so if you have questions, then we can have them here. I don't want to start a new thread 'why ken left TB' and make it a bashing party.

I see very few of the older type more serious DB/Bow type questions we used to see there. We do get some here and they get some there but for the most part, there is just less of it all around. To help this along, if you see a thread on TB about DBs that needs professional help, feel free to PM the thread starter and give him the link over here. Just be sure to remind him to use his real/full name so we don't have to chase him down for it..lol

Thx guys and gals for hanging out here. It has been working out real good in my eyes regardless of the much smaller crowd we have.