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Old 07-10-2013, 03:22 PM
Noah Hall Noah Hall is offline
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Default Interesting Inlay Pattern

Hello all!

This bass came up for sale locally and I've never seen another inlay under the button quite like this. Looks pretty. How common is this and does it point to a region or maker?
I'm somewhat interested in the bass but I'm more curious about the inlay.
Any insight would be appreciated. (Couple more pics here )

Thanks,
Noah

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Old 07-10-2013, 09:11 PM
Adam Linz Adam Linz is offline
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Hey Noah. My name is Adam and i've been a professional player for the last 20 years. The bass your showing us looks like a mid 20th German or Czech bass. The pattern work on the back appers to be done at a later date and looks very new to the bass. I have never seen a bass with this pattern. Also the whole bass looks like it's been refinished and someone has made the neck removeable, not something we usually see standard from whatever shop made this. This does not appear to be an old bass and is that a number 1 on the button of the scroll turn? Besides the work done with the fancy inlay on the back this looks like a school bass or student model. Probably no name maker involved unfortunately. But if the instrument sounds good and desireable it doesn't mean that it's a bad bass. Most playable basses are good basses. Hoping this helps. Best, Adam Linz
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:11 AM
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Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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I agree pretty much with Adam on this on but with a few other ideas. That is an older German bass by its style and made possible in the early 20th century> it can be older but not by much. The NEW Finish has stripped away its MOJO and all signs over being an old bass. Only in extreme cases should that ever be done. Usually only IF it was done before by someone else and done poorly. In 50 years it will start to look old again IF the material used is actual Violin Varnish in either Spirit or Oil.

The Inlay in the bass as Adam is nothing connected to the bass or anything old. It is modern marquetry and seeing as mentioned that it might have been modified into a travel bass (or a heel-block repair), the Inlay, travel work(or repair) and finish were possibly all done recently within the last few years.

The Bass itself is probably from the Saxon region of Germany. These basses and other string instruments were imported by the thousands from the early 20th century and sold under various fictitious brand names depending on the importers creativity to make up a convincing name. These are made in shops, factories and even cottage industry workers on both sides of the Czech/German border where work was sometimes shared and then assembled at one of the main shops before selling them.

Some of the brands sold domestically in and around Germany in the 19th and 20th centuries were often labeled correctly by the shop that produced them. Those names we never see here unless an individual brought one over as these were not made for Export to the USA. Names like Alfred Moritz, Louis Lowendall, W.Uebel, Louis Dölling, Alfred Meyer, Joseph Rubner and several others made actual basses in their shops in *Saxony (*Dresden,*Markneukirchen), Berlin and surrounding areas. These are the better grades of the commercially made domestic German basses. The ones exported here were often built for cost of lower quality and interior work although the higher end models of these fictitious brand names are often quite good. The Bass above is similar to ones imported by a Midwest company and sold under the fictitious label of G.A. Pfretzschner. A shop or person that never lived or existed.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:47 PM
Noah Hall Noah Hall is offline
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Thank you both for the information.

And Ken, thanks for the additional info about the area and other basses of similar pedigree.

I agree some parts of this bass look rough, but I might have to take a look at it in person since it's local. Pictures can make some things look worse and others look better. What I would offer might insult the guy, though (he's asking 11k)
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Hall View Post
Thank you both for the information.

And Ken, thanks for the additional info about the area and other basses of similar pedigree.

I agree some parts of this bass look rough, but I might have to take a look at it in person since it's local. Pictures can make some things look worse and others look better. What I would offer might insult the guy, though (he's asking 11k)
I have inspected many many basses and often the cost to restore a shop bass is more than its value in the end. Not all of them but many of them. Also, the varnish missing is an issue and a value deduction. Even shop basses like this had a decent varnish originally. You have to ask yourself, why was it re-finished or re-varnished? Which ever it is. Look close all over for sanding scratches. That is another no-no in the value because it highlights the re-finish.

The bigger the pedigree, the more the value loss with original varnishes. The lower the pedigree (as with shop basses), the less the loss is. Also, it is usually a value loss unless; it was done a long time ago, with better varnish than the original and looks old again as if it's the original varnish. I have a late 19th century German bass here that was either re-varnished or re-finished, in part or whole. But, I can't really tell. It could just be touch-up after repairs and then clear coated as well for protection. Regardless, the varnish is great. In this case, the varnish if high quality, done well and already aged by now, I see very little deduction in its value as the pedigree is not all that high but a good maker of its time.

Just be careful what you buy. Buying is easy, very easy. Re-selling something you just bought or bought recently can be hard, very hard. Especially if your trying to come close to breaking even on the re-sale.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:01 PM
Noah Hall Noah Hall is offline
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That definitely makes sense.

Does the same sort of degradation in value happen if, for instance, a well meaning spouse polished a bass on a weekly basis? This is something I recently ran into; an old German bass that looked half its age and shiny due to the regular "maintenance" of the finish over the past 50 years.
My suspicion was that years of polish, or whatever product that was used, is probably built up in every crack, cranny and seam making any future repair even more of a challenge.

And as for buying being easy... Oh yes. All too familiar lol. I'm already 4 deep. Luckily I only have to worry about selling one of them which I bought to resell anyways.


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Old 07-12-2013, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Hall View Post
That definitely makes sense.

Does the same sort of degradation in value happen if, for instance, a well meaning spouse polished a bass on a weekly basis? This is something I recently ran into; an old German bass that looked half its age and shiny due to the regular "maintenance" of the finish over the past 50 years.
My suspicion was that years of polish, or whatever product that was used, is probably built up in every crack, cranny and seam making any future repair even more of a challenge.

And as for buying being easy... Oh yes. All too familiar lol. I'm already 4 deep. Luckily I only have to worry about selling one of them which I bought to resell anyways.


Yes, polish in cracks or any other foreign material will hinder re-gluing the old cracks again. Often, if just re-glued, they will open up. Even body oils from touching can contaminate raw wood from future gluing. The usual method to repair a contaminated crack is to clean it out and scrape away the foreign substances down to bare wood or with a router if it's wide enough, make a piece to splice in, from a veneer thickness to a strip as wide as needed and inlay the new wood. Then touch-up and color it to match and then a clear coat with french polish to seal it all in. Something to that nature. That's why when I see a bass that is old, has cracks and is in either distressed condition, poorly repaired previously or both, my estimate to repair it properly as just described comes as a shock to the customer.

I have one bass here that was in poor condition when I got it but not a disaster, that I had restored. It needed the top fixed, pressed out from collapse due to a sprung bar by the last repair 'genius' and a neck graft as well as many other things. That ran about $13k. Luckily I bought the bass at a distressed price knowing I would have some room to fix and sell it for a profit but the condition was way beyond my expectations from just seeing the pictures of it prior to buying it. Still, it was a beautiful bass and deserving of the work it received. Now, I hope to just break even on it.

Just remember that ones own enthusiasm can get the best of you in a situation like this.
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