Spirocore Starks

[Eddue Johnson]

After a long process to find the right strings for my Phretzner bass I am very happy with my choice of Thomastik Dominants, tuned down a whole step with higher than normal string height. I play a mixture of acoustic versions of R&B, country, easy listening , rock and pop standards from the 1930's-90's in my current gig as half a duo with a singer guitarist.

I recently got a great deal on a set of Spirocore Starks and want to put them on a different bass for a different sound, a decent imported carved 3/4 size with a thick top. I want to be able to play without amplification on some gigs, with a piano and vocals, possibly a horn or guitar. But it will be used for not just playing jazz but want to do a lot more bowing in the near future.

Even though I am not an orchestra bassist I thought this might be the best place to inquire about using Spiro Starks as an arco string. This set will also be tuned down a whole step, not the norm I know but it works well for me.

So, anyone here have any experience bowing a bass with a full set of Spiro starks or other heavy gauge string. I have a lot of work to do when it comes to bowing so just looking for some insight. It seems like playing softer might be more difficult than louder playing and not sure how easy it will be to get and control a good arco sound with the heavier gauge.

When it comes to heavy bass arco strings, especially Spiro Starks, what things should I consider. And how long does it take for new Starks to settle in.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eddue Johnson

After a long process to find the right strings for my Phretzner bass I am very happy with my choice of Thomastik Dominants, tuned down a whole step with higher than normal string height. I play a mixture of acoustic versions of R&B, country, easy listening , rock and pop standards from the 1930's-90's in my current gig as half a duo with a singer guitarist.

I recently got a great deal on a set of Spirocore Starks and want to put them on a different bass for a different sound, a decent imported carved 3/4 size with a thick top. I want to be able to play without amplification on some gigs, with a piano and vocals, possibly a horn or guitar. But it will be used for not just playing jazz but want to do a lot more bowing in the near future.

Even though I am not an orchestra bassist I thought this might be the best place to inquire about using Spiro Starks as an arco string. This set will also be tuned down a whole step, not the norm I know but it works well for me.

So, anyone here have any experience bowing a bass with a full set of Spiro starks or other heavy gauge string. I have a lot of work to do when it comes to bowing so just looking for some insight. It seems like playing softer might be more difficult than louder playing and not sure how easy it will be to get and control a good arco sound with the heavier gauge.

When it comes to heavy bass arco strings, especially Spiro Starks, what things should I consider. And how long does it take for new Starks to settle in.

Any Stark string requires more pressure with the bow. The Original Flexocor(dark blue) are at least as heavy if not more as the Flex 92 Starks(dark red). Years ago I bowed on regular Spiros. It was ok from bowing but it depended on the bass. If they sound bright or scratchy on your bass, then it's not for that bass, period. I can only Imagine that Stark Spiro reds will be even harder to Bow on. I don't know anyone who uses them, the Starks I mean. Perhaps there are some European players that do. I think you can add two other strings that are on the heavy side. They bow well but sound depends again on the individual bass. They are the Belcanto's and the Original Flat Chromes. The Bel's have a bigger E/C extension string than the regula E is or was. I haven't tried the regular set in over a year. Also, why are you tuning down a step?

[Eddue Johnson]

Thanks for the input, Ken.

I also thought that Starks would be harder to bow on, that's why I posted to see if anyone really uses them for arco. I also considered the Bel Cantos which I knew they would be easier to bow but I chose the Starks because I wanted to work on my arco technique and thought the Bels would be too forgiving and wouldn't bring out the flaws in my playing like Spiros would.

As for my tuning, when first playing the Dominants I bought a used set to try out and being aware of the stories of Dominants having issues with breakage I tuned the strings very slowly. I thought that the low D had a great tone and feel. This was also the same time I was considering to try a fifths tuning so I was open to the idea of different tunings.Tuning the bass in fourths (DGCF) gave the Pfretzner a completely different character and the 2 extra low notes as well the fingered E seem to fit very well with my style of playing. Although I now had to relearn some of the hand positions in relationship to the lower notes it felt very natural and comfortable. And since I am not a soloist, I don't miss the loss of the higher notes in thumb position. This tuning is also why I wanted to try the Starks. I wanted to be able to tune down a whole step and still have enough string tension to play unamplified.

I am not sure that this carved bass will turn out as well as the Pfretzner but I would like to keep the tuning but have a different sound. I don't see as much of a problem playing pizz but I often wonder why it is so rare to hear arco played on heavy gauge strings?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eddue Johnson

Thanks for the input, Ken.I am not sure that this carved bass will turn out as well as the Pfretzner but I would like to keep the tuning but have a different sound. I don't see as much of a problem playing pizz but I often wonder why it is so rare to hear arco played on heavy gauge strings?

Why? Yes, why, why bother? Who needs Stark if you don't actually need them? They put more pressure on the Top of the Bass and can choke the sound and they are also harder to play on. I have used Stark Flexocor's on some basses IF the Bass needs that string. In that case, I do the extra work to play them. If not, you are also hurting the Bass as well instead of just yourself..

Try playing in an Orchestra with that tuning. When you have to jump up you will be jumping more than the others. When you have modern music with harmonics to play, you will be out of a job unless you play uniform and in unison with the section.

I think 4ths with a C-Extension is the most common world wide now. 5-string basses I believe are outnumbered by C-Extensions. As for tuning in 5ths, that was tried 150 years ago and the conductors preferred the intonation of the players in 4ths, so I've read.

The 5er has its place with some music and some advantages on occasion. The 4 with Ext. is less strings to have in your way when not using them. Only a few notes become the struggle unless, you play 5s on a regular basis. In 5ths, seems like an excuse not to play a 5er or Ext. and you always have to travel or stretch further for everything you play.

In USA the majority is 4 string in 4ths and with C-Ext. for Orchestra for the lows. Go with the flow.. Also, it's easier to play the Ext. notes sitting than standing in some pieces. Most do!

[Eddue Johnson]

You bring up a few points I haven't thought of. If I was playing in an orchestra there would probably be more reasons why it wouldn't work than why it would. I may find out it will be too much work once the bass is set up and tuned, I will know a little more this week when it's all done. It is the thick carved top that I think it can handle the Starks. Whether I can handle them may be a different story! This bass sounds good with most strings I have tried but always seems to be capable of a bigger and better sound. With the other factors involved, 4/4 string on a 3/4 scale bass, tuned down a whole step and as of yet unknown string height, I can't be sure of the actual tension to the top of the bass or the effort required of the left hand.

And even if all that works for me, there's still the issue of bowing Starks. If it can be done on this bass, and can I do it?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eddue Johnson

You bring up a few points I haven't thought of. If I was playing in an orchestra there would probably be more reasons why it wouldn't work than why it would. I may find out it will be too much work once the bass is set up and tuned, I will know a little more this week when it's all done. It is the thick carved top that I think it can handle the Starks. Whether I can handle them may be a different story! This bass sounds good with most strings I have tried but always seems to be capable of a bigger and better sound. With the other factors involved, 4/4 string on a 3/4 scale bass, tuned down a whole step and as of yet unknown string height, I can't be sure of the actual tension to the top of the bass or the effort required of the left hand.

And even if all that works for me, there's still the issue of bowing Starks. If it can be done on this bass, and can I do it?

Too much thinking. Time would be better spent on practicing. I put a string on the bass and leave it there unless it's not working. When the strings are shot, I get the same again or try something else maybe. Sometimes I go back to the original set. I don't make a life out of it, just what it takes. Want heavy strings to bow on at Orchestra Pitch? Get Orig. Flex or 92s Stark. They will be easier to Bow than Spiros but still give you a workout. Need a bigger workout? Try push-ups and Sit-ups..

[Vincent Trautwein]

I put the Stark E on my bass after getting frustrated with the weak Belcanto E a while back. I didn't have enough time to really break it in well (had an audition coming up that I didn't want to be breaking in a spiro during), but from what I remember it was very loud, not impossible to bow, and of course on the brighter side. I don't think I'd go with a set of them, and don't even know if I'll put the E back on, but it seemed like a nice cannon string, which was essentially what I was looking for. God knows if the tone'd mellow to a point where I could use it...maybe one of these days I'll give it more of a chance

[Eddue Johnson]

How well did the Stark E match with the Bel Cantos?

[Vincent Trautwein]

I can't really say...I had them on something like ten minutes before deciding it was a bad idea because of the audition thing I mentioned. Out of the bag the mix seemed pretty bad, but I don't know what'd happen after a week or so.

[Eddue Johnson]

I wouldn't think it would be a good match, but you can never tell what might work until someone tries it.