Broad peak in the overall response question

[Scott Pope]

On my concededly inexpensive imported plywood bass, I have overall good action and good tone. I do notice that there seems to be a broad peak in the response of the bass @ mid-line Db or D. It's not "wolfish," in that the notes don't just "pop" out, but seems to be a general characteristic of gradual rising response from about 2nd line B those to notes, then a gradual coming back down in response going up in pitch from there, leveling back out by @ 4th line F. As I play, it feels like a body resonance that is not dependent on the room size or position (stage, corner gig setup, etc.) It doesn't seem to matter about string choice, whether the notes are played on different strings stopped or open, or position. It does not seem to be coming through my Full Circle (installed threads up, so the disc is against the foot of the bridge) to my combo amp.

Being very limited in my experience with other instruments, my question is whether this is simply the characteristic of my bass, or if this is something that can be modified somewhat with a good luthier adjusting the soundpost and/or tail gut length, or if, since the bass is @ a year old, like any instrument, it simply needs to be given more time for the bass to "open up" some more, or whether with everything else being so good already that I shouldn't mess with it, just play and enjoy.

I feel very lucky that on my limited budget in this economy, I was able to get an inexpensive instrument, and with the help of some friends get it set up myself, as it came with actually a decent ebony fingerboard that already had the rough camber milled into it and only needed some touchup, and I was able to trim and recontour the bridge myself, and the tuners are actually holding tune on the used set of Spiro S42 Weichs I have on it for my jazz band. Yes, I defied the conventional wisdom of not purchasing on-line, but it was either that or nothing. It's working for me, and I actually have the action down all the way to 4-5-6-7 mm with no buzzing, so it's easy to play the usual 3-set gigs, and the band loves it.

I think a lot of the "horror stories" about purchasing an inexpensive bass on line have to do with the unreasonable expectations of being able to play it "right out of the box," with no setup. Yes, when I got it, it had very bad strings and a 10mm action with the adjusters shut down, and the tail gut way too short, and insufficient QC with such things as the neck. I even shaved my neck width down at the nut from almost 2 inches wide at the nut to @ 1 3/4 with a good beefy profile (I didn't thin the neck any, just recontoured it slightly to round it back out from the narrowing at the nut) which feels really good to me. And of course, refiling the nut grooves to get good action in the lower positions, etc. So I have total invested, with strings, pickup, etc., about 2/3 of what a lesser expensive entry level store-brand bass would be, plus the added benefit of learning the rudiments of how a bass actually works by setting it up myself.

I've already had more offers for gigs in the past year than in the last several on just bass guitar or even tuba.

And...Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. It's now time to go watch the parade while the turkey roasts.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Scott Pope

On my concededly inexpensive imported plywood bass, I have overall good action and good tone. I do notice that there seems to be a broad peak in the response of the bass @ mid-line Db or D. It's not "wolfish," in that the notes don't just "pop" out, but seems to be a general characteristic of gradual rising response from about 2nd line B those to notes, then a gradual coming back down in response going up in pitch from there, leveling back out by @ 4th line F. As I play, it feels like a body resonance that is not dependent on the room size or position (stage, corner gig setup, etc.) It doesn't seem to matter about string choice, whether the notes are played on different strings stopped or open, or position. It does not seem to be coming through my Full Circle (installed threads up, so the disc is against the foot of the bridge) to my combo amp.

Being very limited in my experience with other instruments, my question is whether this is simply the characteristic of my bass, or if this is something that can be modified somewhat with a good luthier adjusting the soundpost and/or tail gut length, or if, since the bass is @ a year old, like any instrument, it simply needs to be given more time for the bass to "open up" some more, or whether with everything else being so good already that I shouldn't mess with it, just play and enjoy.

I feel very lucky that on my limited budget in this economy, I was able to get an inexpensive instrument, and with the help of some friends get it set up myself, as it came with actually a decent ebony fingerboard that already had the rough camber milled into it and only needed some touchup, and I was able to trim and recontour the bridge myself, and the tuners are actually holding tune on the used set of Spiro S42 Weichs I have on it for my jazz band. Yes, I defied the conventional wisdom of not purchasing on-line, but it was either that or nothing. It's working for me, and I actually have the action down all the way to 4-5-6-7 mm with no buzzing, so it's easy to play the usual 3-set gigs, and the band loves it.

I think a lot of the "horror stories" about purchasing an inexpensive bass on line have to do with the unreasonable expectations of being able to play it "right out of the box," with no setup. Yes, when I got it, it had very bad strings and a 10mm action with the adjusters shut down, and the tail gut way too short, and insufficient QC with such things as the neck. I even shaved my neck width down at the nut from almost 2 inches wide at the nut to @ 1 3/4 with a good beefy profile (I didn't thin the neck any, just recontoured it slightly to round it back out from the narrowing at the nut) which feels really good to me. And of course, refiling the nut grooves to get good action in the lower positions, etc. So I have total invested, with strings, pickup, etc., about 2/3 of what a lesser expensive entry level store-brand bass would be, plus the added benefit of learning the rudiments of how a bass actually works by setting it up myself.

I've already had more offers for gigs in the past year than in the last several on just bass guitar or even tuba.

And...Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. It's now time to go watch the parade while the turkey roasts.

I would bring to your attention the bass itself. To judge a bass, it should be stripped of anything on it that is not just the bass. Bow quiver off if you have one and the Pick-up out if possible. The Bridge is sensitive and anything you do there might mute it or, enhance unwanted overtones.

Time to break-in you say? For a Plywooid bass I would say 30-40 years because younger basses in ply sound about the same after the varnish first dries to my ear.

Camber you mention? How hard is it to press down the notes from 1/2 to 6th position with your heights at the end of the FB?

Press down the E at the base of the neck near the octave and at the same time, at the nut near 1/2 position. How much space is there under the string? More then the diameter of a G string or less?

Then, press down at the root of the neck and the end of the fingerboard. Look under that half of the FB length. How much space? Near nothing?

Then, from the two ends of the FB, press down. Is the overall camber more than your d or a string thickness? 2mm, 3mm?

Too much camber for me, can kill you. Some gorilla stringth player play so hard, 2-3mm is low and buzzes when they dig in. For me, 2-3mm overall is high. I like my boards set up fairly flat to start and let the string pull the neck up. A reinforced neck with CF graphite will help with this. Thicker and/or stronger necks will as well but the CF Gr. will also even out the notes a bit.

Maybe post some pics of your bass, set-up and camber so we can see better what it all looks like. It might help.

[Scott Pope]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I would bring to your attention the bass itself. To judge a bass, it should be stripped of anything on it that is not just the bass. Bow quiver off if you have one and the Pick-up out if possible. The Bridge is sensitive and anything you do there might mute it or, enhance unwanted overtones.

The bridge came with heavy brass adjusters, and changing out to the aluminum Full Circle adjusters was an improvement in overall response; it had a slightly "damped" impression before, now it seems more open overall, but no change in the relative response as I described above.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Time to break-in you say? For a Plywood bass I would say 30-40 years because younger basses in ply sound about the same after the varnish first dries to my ear.

Being that I turn 50 next month, it's hard to realistically say that I'll be around for that. (genetic clotting condition--takes too long to explain) So I'm glad it sounds as good as it does now and it's good to know that it's going to pretty much be that way ongoing so I can anticipate how it will behave.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Camber you mention? How hard is it to press down the notes from 1/2 to 6th position with your heights at the end of the FB?

Very, very easy. At the end of a 3-set dance band gig, I am generally fatigued, of course, but not sore, especially about my hands or arms. I am actually less fatigued overall than having a bass guitar strapped about my neck for the same length of gig. At the end of our two-hour monthly rehearsals, I hardly notice that I've played that long.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Press down the E at the base of the neck near the octave and at the same time, at the nut near 1/2 position. How much space is there under the string? More then the diameter of a G string or less?

Less than a G string diameter on the E side, about 1mm, even less on the G side.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Then, press down at the root of the neck and the end of the fingerboard. Look under that half of the FB length. How much space? Near nothing?

Yes, near nothing.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Then, from the two ends of the FB, press down. Is the overall camber more than your d or a string thickness? 2mm, 3mm?

Overall, a little less than 2mm on the E string side and about 1mm on the G string side.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Too much camber for me, can kill you. Some gorilla stringth players play so hard, 2-3mm is low and buzzes when they dig in. For me, 2-3mm overall is high. I like my boards set up fairly flat to start and let the string pull the neck up. A reinforced neck with CF graphite will help with this. Thicker and/or stronger necks will as well but the CF Gr. will also even out the notes a bit.

I agree. I have two bass guitars, one with the typical bolt on neck and the other with a 3-laminate neck of maple and shedua, and I used to have a bass guitar with the graphite rods which was also very even in response. The typical neck has the expected dead spot, and the laminate is very, very even. But I live in an area where there are a couple of good luthiers that keep the school and college orchestra instruments going well, but I'm not sure I'd have them rebuild a neck with popping the fingerboard off, channeling the neck for a graphite rod, installing the rod and putting everything back together. Even then, it would probably be more cost effective to buy another bass instead. If I ever get into an economic position where I can spend a few thousand on a bass, then part of that budget would definitely be travel to play first hand, as is the conventional wisdom, and from where I live I'd have to travel quite aways to get to the places with good reputations for basses in stock, new or used.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Maybe post some pics of your bass, set-up and camber so we can see better what it all looks like. It might help.

Thanks. My digital camera is also relatively inexpensive, but I'll try to get to that. Thanks for your considered reply and breaking down what to look for in the details beyond the general "feel" of the instrument.

[Scott Pope]

Well, it may actually have been a wolf. I thought wolf tones were more like a single note really sticking out or dying, not spreading through a range of a few notes. I shifted my jack bracket on my Full Circle from the A & D strings to the E & A strings, actually to make access easier, and lo, and behold, as I play, the peaking not only seems to have mostly disappeared, but I'm getting clearer and more balanced response from my E string overall as well. It is significant enough that my even my wife and 14-year old son can tell the difference, as they know my playing best. Thanks again for all your help.

Hmm. I'm starting to get asked for more gigs. I live in southwest Missouri, but not Branson. Word is getting out that I play, but because I'm not stuck in a bluegrass band, in an orchestra, or on the Branson strip, I'm getting asked to do a wide variety of gigs, from a barnwarming party a couple months ago to a contemporary lessons & carols church service, in jazz & funk style, as well as "conventional" dance band gigs this season. It's been awhile since I've had this many gigs in a row.

As this is my avocation, not my day job, I'm having a blast!

Here's the real kicker so far: last February my dance band played a local dance club's Valentine's Day party. Straightforward gig, decent pay, good time. This coming February we did not get the gig. But last week I got a call from the bandleader who is playing the gig and he asked me to play in his band for the gig!!! So I get to play it, anyway! Life is grand.

[Scott Pope]

Update: it seems to be on the open D string, but not a stopped D on any other string in any position. Even after all the above, since the last post, it was still ringing. To work on some arco, I put a set of Bel Cantos on, which have marginally higher tension than S42 Spiro Weichs at the standard 3/4 mensure. My bass seemed to "focus" a little better with the added tension, and really narrowed the resonance down to the open D string.

Here's the kicker: I recently played a gig with a rather warm stage. Every guy in the band was perspiring, and I had a brown washcloth with me to keep everything wiped down. I don't know why, but on a whim I stuck it part way in the lower part of the G side F hole. The resonance all but disappeared! But not at the expense of damping the projection of anything else! It's now about as even in its response as one can expect for a CCB.

Go figure....

[Bin Hire]

Originally Posted by Scott Pope

Update: it seems to be on the open D string, but not a stopped D on any other string in any position. Even after all the above, since the last post, it was still ringing. To work on some arco, I put a set of Bel Cantos on, which have marginally higher tension than S42 Spiro Weichs at the standard 3/4 mensure. My bass seemed to "focus" a little better with the added tension, and really narrowed the resonance down to the open D string.

Here's the kicker: I recently played a gig with a rather warm stage. Every guy in the band was perspiring, and I had a brown washcloth with me to keep everything wiped down. I don't know why, but on a whim I stuck it part way in the lower part of the G side F hole. The resonance all but disappeared! But not at the expense of damping the projection of anything else! It's now about as even in its response as one can expect for a CCB.

Go figure....

I found Bel Canto strings had less tension for pizz - too soft. Different basses, I guess.