huh??
 

Ok, I get it now. So when you retire from Bass making you will move down to Florida and do Stand-up in the southern Borscht belt?:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Don't expect that many laughs..:rolleyes:

Not quitting my day job. :(

lol..
 

Smart move!:D

Ken,

Any sound or video clips of the new bass?

?? me??
 

No, but come over and make some for me. I have no clue how to post them. My son would but he's away for now. How can you hear a DB on little speakers? You need to feel the walls shaking in the room. It is just about as loud and full sounding as any bass and the G and D strings are deep sounding as well. No harsh new type sounds anywhere. I can feel it's new and that's about all.

Ken, how is that new bass playing?

how?
 

Not very well at all on its own unless, I am playing it! :D

Seriously, it plays like butter and all the notes are just where you expect them to be. If this bass was 200-300 years old, there would be very little to compete with it anywhere. Wait.. Ok, yes, I have that bass too, the original..;)

Arnold did a great job on the bass and instead of a flatback like the original, we went with a roundback. Arnold carved the Back arch more like a Panormo but graduated in thickness as Panormo used a 6mm thickness all around on both plates on many basses.

My next upcoming Orchestra concert requires a pickup/amp on one tune, Theme from Rocky as I also have the Electric part for that piece. I don't feel like cutting the wings of this Bridge just yet for my pickup because I already have another bass that is. Also, the stage is quite cramped at this place so I think I will just use the other bass this time.

So, the new bass is doing fine and I practice on it everyday regardless of the other basses I doodle with as well. Thank's for asking..

There's always one joker in the pack.
So, the aging process is the biggy? This might sound like a dumb question but, in your opinion, say a bass played at 50% of its potential, what do you think that 200 years would add - bearing in mind that it was a fully carved, well designed/built bass?

biggie?
 

Ok, the last bass I had for 200 years went from new to 200 years and sounded like.. ah, :confused: I can't remember that far back..:D

new page..
 

Ok, here is the link to the new page we just put up. http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...hnitzer-smith/

Here's a preview from my Link;
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...oll-button.jpghttp://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...mages/back.jpg

Beautiful workmanship and design. The varnish is superb and the best of all of Schnitzer's that I have seen. The scroll is slightly quirky and that adds a lot of interest to the clean workmanship in that area.

I would be pretty proud of that one Ken!

Wow
 

Just too gorgeous!

smiles..
 

If you guys only knew what went in to this bass!..:eek:

The Varnishing was something special and the wood all over has some tiny flaws and nothing was done to cover them up. The Scroll on the original is simplistically beautiful. The Copy is more elaborate but hey, she's mine so I get what I want. I loved the Teardrop on the Martini which was off center but the Candi Teardrop is perfect. Some natural flaws here and there in the wood and how the wood took the varnish in my opinion just adds to its natural beauty. It IS tempting to smooth everything out but I was not looking for 'plastic' and nor would Arnold (I assume) go that route either. The Top is done in a way that you can feel all the fibers across the grain known as Corduroy. Like the pants!.. ;)

Ground coloring was applied to the Back and Ribs and then sanded out leaving the darker flames highlighted. Then it was varnished over. This was done to add a natural look to the aging without using chains or tools. The Ribs themselves show some natural rippling which I have seen on a few newer basses as well as many old ones.

Yes guys, it's a beautiful bass and I thank you all for your compliments. The tone is so pleasing that playing Pizz with Belcantos, it pumps out air like Gut strings and they feel thicker under my fingers. Switching to the Hart back to back with the same strings on feels completely different so I know it's the bass and not the strings doing that. Although I was going for an Orchestra bass and it's great in that respect, it's also a fantastic thick punchy sounding Jazz bass as well. :)

Maybe Arnold will come in here and say a few words. He's a little busy trying to finish the restoration on the original. Maybe a side-by-side photo session would be in order up at his shop with both the new and old meeting for the first time all strung up.:cool:

I appreciate greatly all the kind words and support.

This was an intense project for me. I'm not accustomed to getting so much input from the person for whom the instrument is being built, especially from someone as knowledgeable and particular as Ken. At every step in the design and building process, Ken made it perfectly clear what he wanted. "Lush sounding. Deep. Easy to play and easy to get around". Every choice made regarding wood, arching, graduating, shape, etc. was done with "deep and lush" in mind as the tonal goal. Top wood: Engelmann (deep and lush). Shape: wide in the middle, like the original (deep and lush). Arching: pronounced in the back, flattish in the top center (deep and lush). Bridge width and bass bar placement: wide (deep and lush). I guess you get the picture. The bass came out as desired, deep and lush. A side benefit is that it speaks very quickly, as it is fairly light but stiff.

Ken likes a dark and complex sound because he is surrounded by a collection of ancient masterpieces. To have my creation meet with his approval, and hold its own in that company is rewarding and inspiring. And to get paid, to boot!

Nice work Arnold, I DO like that head carving!

The outline is quite unique, with its small corners. The bass looks a little tubby but at the same time elegant. It isn't so much that the centre is wide as the upper bout is narrow and tall.

I am frustrated seeing only small pictures, Ken. Got any bigger ones or nice sharp closeups of the corners, the purfling and/or that show the wood textures??

How does the sound compare to the original? Are the organ pipes still there?

pics, etc..
 

Matt, my son took these pics in a hurry the other night so I could get the page up. Arnold's facebook pics are nicer. The pics on my page are also sized a bit and it's a longer slender look in real than anything squat. They came out distorted and blurred as well. I will get new ones up one day but because it's not really a bass for sale (unless one wants to order my model made new), we didn't go crazy with the pics, yet!

The Original is about 300 years old and we can't figure a way to put that component into a new bass other than waiting 300 years! But the depth or sound is there and the low strings almost increase in volume over the D and G strings. The Original is a flatback with narrow spaced f-holes. That in itself will change the tone as well the individual exact pieces of wood. The original 2-pc laminated Spruce/Maple Burl Ribs on the original are or were very resonant but in time they blistered all over rather then cracking like with normal solid ribs. Unless we try a few more basses copying the parts we changed for longevity we will never know. We will also need 300 years of playing it in to compare but by then, the original will be 600 years old! So, WE will never know.

The original is still in restoration so after IT'S done, we can compare the modified original all repaired to the copy of the modified bass and get a 'real-time' comparison. For now, I am quite happy with the results. I can take out the new bass with as much confidence as any of the older ones. The differences are mainly the played in aged tone. Other than the aged factor, there are no more or less differences here than comparing the Gilkes, Hart, Martini, Panormo or any of the other basses I have taken to work in recent years. They are all different and all very good professional high grade basses. The new bass will sit amongst them equally in time. I am sure about that.:cool:

One thing I want to point out is that Arnold did not go for cosmetic perfection on this bass regardless of how beautiful it looks overall. It came out how it came out within the details. Older basses were often made this way as the DB was not the most important instrument of the Shop so it suffered in some areas of its cosmetics but not in tone as we now know. This is somewhat a non-deliberate way of making something with simplicity. Looks do not equal tone. I wanted tone. The original is made very simply so that's the brain you need turned on when making this. If you look at the bass close up in person at the corners, details, purfling, varnish, etc., you will see an individually handmade bass. If Arnold makes another, it will not look exactly the same no matter how hard he tries..;)

Yes, and that is what I'm keen to see. For me, beauty is not perfect and glossy and symmetrical in every dimension. Beauty is being able to see the hand of the creator and the traces of history.

I haven't seen any pics of this finished bass yet on any of Arnold's pages.

pics..
 

Arnold has some in progress pics but he has to get with his web guy to put them up. Maybe when the original is done we will do a pic shoot with both of them side by side. I will also be getting together with Riccardi's Wife and son to show them the bass when it's all done along with my friend Kevin who introduced me to the Family originally and helped my to acquire the bass. They too should see the pair together if at least just for a nice afternoon.

On my pics, you can click the + and blow them up. The focus looks like you just took your glasses off. lol :eek:

Perfectly stated!

Tuning Machines
 

Hi Ken/Arnold,

Congratulations on the great looking and sounding bass!

Are those English Baker tuning machines?

I'm asking because all the Baker style tunings machines that I've seen here in London have screws on the other side of the cheek to hold the cog in place. Would you please share how do they work (without screw) on your bass?

They are copies from Gallery Strings in England. If you look closely you'll see that the sides of the large gear are angled, which holds them in place via the pressure from the worm gear. I strongly prefer not to drill through the opposite side when installing gears. The scroll is considerably stronger this way, and less likely to break or split.

Hi Arnold.

Thank you for sharing. Looks like the "Healey" model. Yes?

I feel the same about not drill the opposite side. Another thing about the Baker style tuners that I don't quite like is that in most cases the gears and screws/washers (on the other side) don't sit flat on the cheeks.

flat on the cheeks..
 

Yes, that is usually true with most gears of that style. However, I have never heard of anyone replacing 'real' Baker gears. They seem to last for ever, about two centuries going on three! For a Gear that good, I can live with the looks of the screw.

Ken, care to share any news about this bass? ;)

oh!
 

Yes, sure, why not.

After careful consideration and a few players falling over it emotionally, I decided to sell it to a professional Orchestra player so it could get the attention it needs.

Being that I own the original and a dozen or more other old relics, I thought it would live best in the hands of a full time player.

Had ALL of my old basses sold before hand, I would have been more than happy having this as my one and only main bass. That NOT being the case, I offered it to sale as soon as the question popped up for a new Schnitzer Bass by a person trying this out, but not right away. I did have to think about it for a week or two to ease my own mind on the subject. Either way, I think he would have ordered one just like it as both him and another Orchestra Pro with him agreed that it didn't sound like a new bass and the low end was killer. Also, it played so easy it taught me for the future what I should look for in maximum comfort.

Now that this bass has been made and tried, I am even more spoiled in playability concept than I had been in the past. :eek:

Well done both of you! So is there going to be a name for that "model"?

name?
 

Maybe; Ex-Riccardi Cornerless Bass Copy (formerly attributed to 'Storioni')

You think it's catchy enough or a mile and a hlaf too long maybe for Marketing purposes?:confused::eek::o:(

They can just ask Arnold, 'that model you made for Ken'!

Ask Arnold, maybe he has a name. 'Lorenzo' maybe? Yes, we will call it Lorenzo as it was copied from a bass that was known as a Storioni (Lorenzo) whether it was/is or not. Also, if I sell a few basses here, I just might have him do it again within 98% or so and play around with woods and stuff. Just something for the 'bucket list' kinda thing..;)

I didn't think you would sell that bass Ken, but you are definitely right. Having it in the hands of a full time orchestra bassist is a good thing. It will be great to see the original when its fully restored. I'd love to hear it!

yes,
 

I really wanted to hear them side by side but we will have to just rely on our memory. This happened before as well with my Dodd as it was sold before the Hart, Gilkes and Gamba basses were restored so I never got compare them to the Dodd either. The other 3 I did compare. All 3 were completely different sounding bass. As different as they looked, were built and as they measured.

The Original Cornerless (former Storioni Attr.) will ether be hidden away (for my use and/or break-in period) or due to its price, only be shown to buyers shopping in that range. I don't think I will have it on the rack for general visitors to play or demo.

Bass With Corners Inspired By the Ex-Riccardi Cornerless Bass Formerly Attributed to Storioni Currently in the Ken Smith Collection :D

but..
 

I think you left out "with Tear Drop Button added"..:eek:

Oh, and.. "Round back instead of Flat"..:eek::eek:

Or maybe just name it "Lorenzo" ?:);):cool:

Just brain storming here.:D

"Freaking Awesome Bass With Corners Inspired By the Ex-Riccardi Cornerless Bass Formerly Attributed to Storioni Currently in the Ken Smith Collection" :D

yup..
 

All true!:D

How about:

"Freaking Awesome Bass With Corners Inspired By the Ex-Riccardi Cornerless Bass Formerly Attributed to Storioni (currently in the Ken Smith Collection); designed by Arnold Schnitzer and Ken Smith, built so beautifully by Arnold Schnitzer that it has been deemed sinful, and/or possibly illegal, to not be played nearly continuously by a professional Orchestral Bassist"

well..
 

Can you fit that on a bumper sticker? :confused:

Lorenzo it is.

ok..
 

Great idea Arnold.:D

"Figlio de Storioni" (son of Storioni)?

I hope this bass will find its way to the ISB Convention in Rochester in 2013. I'd love to see it. I have not closely followed the chatter on cornerless basses, but there seems to be a prevailing theory that they sound better. Of course, I ask if the sound is better because they are cornerless, because they are a few hundred years old, because they were made by guys who knew what they were doing, or because time has weeded out all the clunkers?

I can tell you that modern acoustical research has shown that there's a lot of bending going on in the center bout region of bowed string instruments. My feeling is that the presence of corner blocks acts to stiffen the center, but without any good evidence as to whether this is a good or bad thing. There's a good bit of evidence that the violin evolved from the viheula, a small Spanish guitar, which makes me wonder why we don't see more cornerless instruments. The bass, on the other hand, is perhaps a different breed. Anyway, get cracking, Arnold, and lobby Ken to let us see this puppy when it's done.

done?
 

Robert, the Bass (copy) was completed shown at the last VSA in Cleveland. Shortly after, the C-Extension was added and then delivered to me. After playing only a single rehearsal with the bass, it was Sold to a professional Orchestra player. I never got to use it on a Gig myself. By the time it was Sold, the original was restored and ready to use. It is a great bass and the sound had some age right out of the box, so to speak. I am sure it will come to develop as one of the great early 21th century basses.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...hnitzer-smith/ ..Sold..
:(

Arnold Schnitzer

New York, 2010
SOLD

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double...mith-right.jpg