Hello
 

Hello to everyone on Ken's Corner from Pompey NY.
I visit this site quite often to gather information for my luthier projects and to learn about the String Bass. Currently, I am building a Panormo copy out of Cherry lumber. The project has been going on for about a year now ( I have a day job), progress can be slow at times, but I still manage to chip away at the bass little by little.

If anyone is interested, I will post some photos of my "project"......Thats me in the picture chipping away.

Here is the Rib structure without front and back plates. I just completed the mortise for the neck joint (notice the saw).

Here is the neck and the half carved scroll, the volutes still need to be carved in.

Chunking out the opening for the strings and machines.

This weekend will be a big moment for the bass; time to finally glue the back on to the ribs. Not sure how it will go, the glue sets up fast and the back has to be aligned perfectly. The picture is of a dry fit (no glue).

Wish me luck.

Glue up 9/24/08
 

The back is now attached to the ribs! It was a very difficult operation and I am glad its over. Here is some highlights of the glue up procedure:

I made a special glue up bench from an old restaurant table. This new bass holder allowed me easy access to the bass carcass during the glue up (saw horses would have been way too cumbersome for this stage).

Had to make 44 spool clamps which took up most of the weekend.

The back has a 25 degree bend, so it needed special cauls to keep the clamps from slipping.

It took about 20 hrs of preparation and staging for a 15 minute glue up.

Now it is time to clean up the glue, and start planning the top.

Ribs Review; History 10/07 - 1/08
 

This is how the ribs came to be:

10/07 - Mould for Panormo Bass.
10/07 - First Rib.
11/07 - More ribs with corner.
12/07 - the linings.

The Back; Quick Review 1/08 - 6/08
 

2/08 - Carving the back profile from a Cherry blank.
2/08 - More carving.
3/08 - Outside of back nearing completion.
4/08, 5/08 - wasting away the inside.
6/08 - The bend.

The back took a long time to make.

Top Plate 8/08
 

Over the summer I got started on the top plate.

1) Spruce Billets before glue up. This was a big chunk of lumber.
2) Clamping.
3) My helper with our future bass top ready for carving.

9/08 Top plate
 

First thing to do was joining a flat side on the blank. Hand tools worked the best since the top is so large and the spruce is easy to work.

Next up: Leveling the front edges of the rib structure and tracing the bass outline to the spruce top.

i find the building of these things fascinating so keep up the good work and keep posting the pics!

9/23/08
 

I am glad you like it Ed, and I appreciate the encouragement.

Digital photography is amazing; Thanks to Ken's Corner and the internet, I can snap a picture in my barn and within minutes have it seen world wide. This is what I did yesterday:

No power carvers on hand, so I used an sharp adze to "roughly" reduced the top thickness at the edges. Looks crude, but it worked just fine.

Next up; the jig saw will cut out the shape of the top.

just curious, how long does something like this take to build? is this for you or are you producing it for someone else? ive always wanted to do a project like this this but it seems so labor intensive it has to be done with a lot of love!!:D

Experienced luthiers say it takes around 500 hrs to build a double bass. This is my first bass, so I suspect it will take me longer. The bass will be for my son who plays in a local youth symphony. He is due for a instrument upgrade so he can grow as a young bassist.

My regular job is working in a wood shop, but this project is completely different from anything I have ever built before. Luthier work requires a lot more brain time than say, building a bathroom vanity. Also, as I have learned, wood selection is crucial. It seems you are pushing the material to its limits. Balance act between fragility and strength.

Sorry, no pictures today.

9/01/08
 

Leveling the ribs: Last night I removed the inside braces and worked on getting the front rim flat. Once the ribs are flush, I can trace the outline of the bass to the spruce top and begin carving.

A small block plane worked the best. I also tried some sticky sand paper on a flat board and moved the bass back and forth. The "giant sanding block" method worked o.k., it just seemed to lack some of the olde world appeal of the simple hand tool. In the end, it was good to experiment with different methods and the front rim is now very flat.

ribs are flush??
 

The ribs are flush?? Do you mean no overhang 'Lip' for the Top and Back or do you mean 'once the Ribs are trued up'? Basses without an overhanging Lip can develop more problems over time. Even Basses with a Lip when made turn Flush over time around the lower Bout and Ribs need to be shortened at the Block to remedy this.

Craig how do you think this will stand up against "store" bought basses? i know you said it was for your son as an upgrade, i was just curious?

Its going to blow them away!

Seriously, Since this is my first build, i have no idea. His stand partners all play Shen 3/4 willows and hybrids. It will be interesting to hear how they sound side by side and together as a section (if I ever get it done). Currently he play a plywood bass.

Ken, the ribs are "trued up", just couldn't come up with a better term.
The back has a 3/16" (5 mm) overhang, I think it looks attractive. The extra overhang could possibly help protect the ribs and be helpful in future repairs.

The Shen overhang seemed very tight to me. Could be to keep the edges from catching on bass bags and such.

store bought and Ribs topic..
 

On the 'Store Bought' as far as Guitar stores go they sell Junk for the most part aka BSO/Bass shaped objects. Professional Bass shops on the other hand can sell Basses from under $1000 to over $100k so there is a range there if values are correct on the offerings. Any smart minded DB shopper should not buy Cheap Basses in a Guitar Store or the cheapos on Ebay. OnlyfFirst time Buyers who no very very little about DBs buy these 'negative value' wannabes.

On your Bass Craig, might I suggest Bumpers at the onset? Matching Rib wood under the Varnish would be best I think. Save your edges BEFORE they need Bumpers and repairs. I had them put on a few of my Basses recently. It's a relief in my mind when I lay the Bass down, trust me. This is the best time to do such a thing.

9/07/08
 

I traced the outline of the bass to the top leaving a 3/16" overhang; then I cut out the shape. It was exciting to see the silhouette of the bass appear in the spruce. The next step was making the templates for the plate arching.

Evan though I am a little nervous about the next stage of the bass project; carving the top will be fun. My plan is to take it slow and enjoy the "experience".

Time sharpen some tools.

Craig, you are doing some really nice work there. I think your arching profile shown in the pic could use some tweaking, though. The transition from the convex arch to the flat (or slightly concave) zone around the edges looks extremely sudden to me. Personally I find basses sound best when the plates have gradual, rather than sudden curves. Hope this is helpful!

Thanks for the input Arnold. I made a new center arch and tried to flatten out the curve at the transition area as you described. Arch #1 did seem abrupt. Arch #2 is a lot smoother but I may tweak it some more. The top and bottom arches are much flatter at the ends and may not need adjusting.

I spent this weekend wasting away the spruce top by hand. I do not mind the grunt work; its a welcome change from the finicky stuff to come.

10/22/08
 

I seem to have misplaced my camera; hope to find it soon so I can update the thread.

Currently, I am still carving the top by hand; its slow going but a good way to learn. It is tricky navigating the grain direction with all the hills and valleys. The spruce likes to tear out so I try to keep the tools very sharp.

More pictures coming soon....

10/26/08
 

Very rough shaping at this point, top plate is still very thick.

Need to refine the shape and figure out the edge thickness. It is 10-15 mm thick around the edges, so I still have a long way to go.

(I found my camera)

11/18/2008
 

Photo #1
Winter is here.

Photo #2
Top carving. Roughed it out, then started to work on the "east-west" or horizontal arching. Here is the C-bout arch getting close to the outline of the template. My plan is to establish the top, middle, and lower arches, along with the long arch. Then, blend them together into a beatiful bass top.

You may notice a pitch pocket of some kind has appeared in the top. It was not there when I started to carve, but slowly revealed itself as the top got closer to the finished size. I may have to do some type of repair.

Photo #3
This is my arsenal. So far I have stuck to the hand tool method for shaping the top. Doing this by hand, IMO, might be a better way to learn the subtleties of plate arching, (as opposed to using power tools).

11/26/08
 

Picture #1
I fastened the top plate to an old table base. This enabled me to work around the plate without having clamps and bench legs getting in the way.
Gracie (the dog) has been with me from the start, usually she just curls up in the corner wile I whittle away.

Picture #2
The top plate, in all its "fully carved" glory.
(still have to carve out the inside)

Picture #3
Working the edges. Violin makers spend a lot of time discussing "edge treatment"; it may not be as big of a deal in bass making, but, nice edge work is one of my goals on this instrument. I am using gouges to get the proper scoop and roll wile at the same time, maintaining plate thickness and reserving a place for the purfling. Also, one must keep in mind the overhang distance. There is a lot going on at the edge of a top.

Nice looking handiwork there, Craig. Just as food for thought, you might be interested to know that most makers install the purfling before forming the edge hollow and bead, so that their purfling tools have a solid, flat surface to ride on. Are you installing purfling? If so, what method are you going to use to cut the channel?

According to the box it came in, I have an "Ulmia Furnieradern-Nuten". Made in Germany. Its a channel cutter for inlay work I purchased years ago for furnituremaking.

It will need to be adapted to work on the bass, but in general, the tool functions the same as the ones they sell for cutting grooves for purfling.

I will regret it later, but, I will probably end up chipping out the waste by hand. Once again, I've chosen the slow method!

12/8/08
 

This thread is proof that not everything on the internet moves a the speed of light!

The purfling is on hold, I ordered material and waiting for it to come in.

Still working on the arching; trying to get everything to the finished profile before hollowing out the underside. The high tech lazar shots give an idea of the curves on the top.

I left a lot of material on the edges so I can attempt a more sculpted treatment there. I am hoping it will look more "hand carved" than a production factory bass.

The last photo is just a teaser; I wanted to see how the top looks on the ribs. The underside still needs to be carved. Also, still have to remove some of the glue residue on the ribs.

Purfling 12/22/08
 

1) This is not a luthiers tool, but it got me through the job!
The cutters worked well, but the fence had to be modified so it could follow the curves of a bass.

2) Shop made purflings using different thickness veneers. They were glued up in forms that matched the contours of the bass

3) The preformed purflings waiting to be installed.

4) First purfle!
Cherry wood was used in the center to match the ribs and back. I did some preliminary edge shaping with small files; this is an attempt at a "sculpted edge". I hope it doesn't look too thick or get in the way of the bow.

5) The purfling is a bit on the heavy side compared to other basses, but I think it will blend just fine. Sometimes bold can be good.

Nice work Craig. The form-laminated purfling is such a crazy idea that it makes sense! Of course the standard way is to glue up flat sheets, then bend with heat as you need. But the result is all that really matters. What's the width and depth of the purfling?

The purfling comes in at a heavy 3/16", or 1.12" or 7/64". The black is .30", and the cherry is .50" (My dial caliper measures in .00"). Its looks wide on the spruce side, but blends in nicely on the cherry back! It looks like two separate black stripes when inlayed in to the cherry wood.

Channel 2 mm deep, edge 6 mm thick, after trimming the edge to 5mm, there should be 3-4 mm of material under the purfling. How deep should I go? Does the depth create the so called hinge effect?

5mm is thin for the edge. 7 is more common.

The hollowed out scoop is at 5 mm, and the rolled over outer edge is 8 mm.
Chandlers plans call for 4.5 plate thickness next to the ribs, and 6 mm plate thickness next to the ribs at the f holes. For now, I'll try to keep it on the heavy side.

Measurements?
 

Check again. .50"/.500" = 1/2". Do you mean .050" and .030"? Missing a zer0?

.050" is like a G string or so in diameter and .030" is like a high C string.

I think I'll switch to the metric language.

Black veneer .70 mm, Cherry 1.24 mm, total thickness 2.64 mm.

ok..
 

You were just short that extra zero I mentioned. You had it listed at 10x the size without it.

.70mm = .0275", 1.24mm = .0488 , total = .100"/2.64mm

In dividing for MMs, use 25.4 instead 2.54 or you get 10x like with the Caliper misread.

04/01/09
 

Glued (and clamped) the last of the purfling in the top.
My son thinks it looks really cool.

04/01/09
 

Graduating the top.
I made a special table/cradle to hold the top plate.
Today, I will start to carve out the underside of the top deck.

I see you have posted a graduation drawing. That thick ridge down the center is not traditional,. It is typical to work in more of an oval manner out from the thickest center zone. I believe the drawing is from the Chandler book, which contains some good basic info but is short on specifics. You will want to cut your f-holes while the top is still a bit heavy. Otherwise you will be cursing everytime a little tear-out episode happens on the inside.