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#1
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Where are they??
The BIG old German Basses from Mittenwald made 150 years ago and before, where are they? Other than a few for sale in London or Germany on occasion you hardly ever hear about them?
These would be those of the Kloz/Klotz family and the later Seitz/Seiz, Neuner and/or Hornsteiner family of makers. Throw in Baader/Bader while you're at it! These are the real big 4/4 or 5/4 (as some call them) full sized Basses. Is it possible that the Central European players love them so much that they just don't give them up? ..or?.. Has it just been more profitable for dealers scouring Europe over the years to bring back only Italian, English and French Basses? Lets talk some German here.. Basses I mean. |
#2
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well, here is an Austrian bass for sale,
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558909 ..looks like a nice bass , and at the right price. I have played quite a few good sounding German basses , but can't say i find the look of many of them attractive . They can look a bit ugly. This one looks nice . . Those hat peg tuners just don't do it for me though. |
#3
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here is a couple of Neuner & Hornsteiner , at the bottom of the page here , very nice looking basses ,
http://www.yamamoto-bass.com/bass/room.html i played one once , had a huge sound , but it was such a large bass ,it was almost impossible to play , ... i'm 5'10 '' so no shorty , but i couldn't get around on that thing . If i remember, the stop was 44 inches . |
#4
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ok..
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So, keep 'em coming. May I suggest looking at Orchestras actually IN central Europe where the might be hiding there in the Bass section. From what I have read, several makers made 4/4 sized basses in Germany from the period I mentioned and mostly in Mittenwald. I just wanna see as many of them as I can find. |
#5
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#6
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oh...?
Ok, you silence Sir Anselm is loudly heard!
Maybe being from this region, you could tell us things one would only learn from being a German native experiencing these 'hidden treasured basses' first hand.. Can you? |
#7
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ok..
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String length alone does not determine size in my book. It is the body length mainly. So 47-48" long or so is the targeted size for the 4/4. Bridge placement with or without centering on the F-hole nicks determine the string length. Depending on where the FFs were cut into the Top would determine the intended string length along with the length of the neck itself. Nice Bass you links us to there but please, keep looking.. |
#8
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#9
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yes.. but..
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There are MANY makers within each of these families of Neuner and Hornsteiner but there seems to have been a factory of sorts with that name way back into the 18th century from what I have read. Only a few of them were ever involved with basses as Violins was and always is the main focus of these shops. Still, thanks for posting. |
#10
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so, what do you think about this one:
http://www.geba-online.de/marktplatz...e_id=0&id=4616 |
#11
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humm..??
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#12
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early 19th century unknown maker, probably füssen school, 1994 complete restaurated at bernhard kort, berlin http://www.kort-basses.com/?set_language=de excellent condition was played in berlin philharmonic, german opera berlin, bayreuth, stattskapelle dresden scale length 106cm, 187 cm tall, 38.500€ i like it, but: what else could you get for 38.500? |
#13
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Here's my large old German!
Here's my large old German - the stop is 43.75", the body length is 46.5", the width across the top bout is 21.625" and across the bottom bout 28.5". Bottom rib 8.75" deep.
The papers I received with the bass described it as Mittenwald, around 1820, but another luthier has recently disagreed, ( I think because of the scroll) and dates it later and not from Mittenwald. Anyway, it's a fine old bass, which I love playing! Any opinions gratefully received… Nick |
#14
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Mittenwald?
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As far as the age goes, from the pics I will agree 19th century but 1820 would be hard to agree on from just these images. Looks like a nice bass but, that dark varnish was put over lighter brown varnish at some point from what I can see. That in itself makes it seem older than it might be. If Mittenwald, it looks more like a commercially made Baader then anything from the Klotz-Hornsteiner-Neuner-Seitz-Reiger school. The Scroll may or may not be original to the body. Lots of bad things have happened to old basses and original heads do not always survive. By the way, where are the Papers from, by whom? |
#15
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Hi Ken, thanks for taking the time to look - the evaluation was from Thwaites, I think, a very well respected luthier here in the UK
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#16
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I have done a bit of business with Thwaites as well over the lase few years but thru personal meets here in my shop with Bill P.. Next time you are in there, give Bill my personal regards. |
#17
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and another.. (Rieger)
I have seen this huge bass (116cm s.l., 45.66") on-line many times and it's listed as an old English bass played in the Finnish Radio Symphony. A few weeks ago I noticed the small ebony arrows inlaid in the upper gamba bout corners of the Top. The only maker I know of that does that is Josef Rieger of Mittenwald (19c.). Rufus Reid has a bass by him as well. This one has a lion head as well.
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