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#1
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Old German French Model
We have discussed a little about the Germans making French copies and these are seen in many early 20th century Basses. Here is a 19th century German Bass. From the slope of the shoulders I would guess that it was copied from a Bernadel rather than the more broad type Cello models of Claudot or the Jacquet family of makers. The Purfling running around the Upper bouts of the Top and Back plates along with the Violin model outline is the French styling I am referring to.
Looking at the Scroll closer you can see the filled in screw holes from the older German plate type gears. They have been replaced by early 20th century French gears with the Bakelite handles. Someone really wanted this Bass to turn French. Actually it was sold to the current owner 'as' a French Bass. Another dealer pricing it for the market told the owner it was either French or German. Why can't they see the difference? This is clearly a German Bass regardless of the features and design. When I first saw the Bass the glaring German features were the outer Rib linings and the Varnish. This is when the Bass was being uncovered and I only saw the lower Rib. From that alone I knew it wasn't French but rather a 'wannabe' made in Germany. The sound however is fabulous. A great Orchestra Bass with depth, smooth low end spread but with clarity. For Jazz, it's a Ray Brown type sounding Bass with that fat attack and string sound rolling off your fingers and that's with the Bass strung with Flexocor Starks! If this were strung with Spiro reds I would venture to speculate it would just kill as a Jazz Bass. |
#2
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Ken, I'm not so sure that isn't a French-made bass. To me, the only real clash is the outside linings. You do occasionally see those on a French-made Hawkes. Have you looked at the internal lining and block work? I wonder if that might have been a special order for someone who wanted outside linings to prevent open seams...?
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#3
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Hummm
Quote:
When you make your next visit 'Maestro', you can examine it in person and confirm which country produced it. I think this is at least as nice in sound as any French Bass of a similar model, condition and age. My opinion is a combination of deduction (Sherlock style) and previous experience. I welcome all and any other opinions regardless of previous experience. Either way, this is one well made Bass. |
#4
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How do you account for the obviously French (and very old) tuners?
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#5
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Tuners?
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Like I said Maestro, this Bass wants to be French so bad that they even put French tuners on after it was made. Under UV light the Varnish all matches including the Scroll. If you look close at the pictures you will see all the filled holes from the German gear plates that were most likely original to the Bass. |
#6
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Are there marks showing where the plates were? There should be a difference in color there as well.
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#7
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Gernman-French Bass
My College has an interesting bass that appears to be a german Vuillaume copy.
There is a replica vuillaume label inside with a date of 1844 (the bass looks nowhere near that old), above which a previous restorer has pencilled the word "German" The bass looks similar to the one at the start of this thread, although it has a much lighter varnish. I don't have any pics to hand, but I could take some when I get back there next month..... |
#8
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This is a thread on this bass posted at TB after I got it back from getting a new bridge, nut, saddle, soundpost, fingerboard dressing and French Polish.
Ken suggested I continue discussion here as well. .....................Copied from TB.......................... She's back! Here's me tonight with a bad pic from a guest at the gig. Yes, I took her outside. Couldn't resist. Perfect night. No hint of rain until I'd long since packed her away. First time I've seen me with it. Looks like it fits. Nice ass. On the bass. Lots of stuff here. I'll try to summarize. Got it back last week, drove straight from Cincinnati to the gig. Arrived at 5:57pm for a 6pm downbeat. I was only five minutes late though. Not bad. Just jumped in with no alone time. What the hell. Played a gig, sounded pretty amazing considering I had no time to adjust anything. Kinda like sitting in on somebody elses bass. Freaking out at the hugeness of it all. The resonance, the tight but huge bottom end. Wow. G string got annoying by the end of the night but considering I felt like I was test driving a Ferrari after driving a Vanagon most of my life it wasn't bad at all. Next day the crap tailpiece it came with shredded apart while I was at work so she was down all the rest of the weekend while I waited for another to arrive. It was depressing to come home and see a pile of bridge, pickup and tailpiece on the floor in the corner where it lives and strings dangling...:bawl: Thankfully the soundpost didn't move. I got the new TP yesterday. I put on Spirocores, Mittel A/D/G and the Stark E. Sounded terrible. To much tension. Swapped out the Stark E for a Mittel. Sounded much better across the bass but the E was a wimp compared to the Stark both Pizz and under the bow. Played a rehearsal like that this morning. More depression. Better but unsatisfactory. Buzzy D/G, G is dead as a doorknob. Sounds a note then dies quick. Gets really nasal up the fingerboard and never really drives the box much. Something amiss there. Some Oliv strings arrive today. Put the Olive D/G on with the Mittel A/E. Very nice. Middle of the bass opens up, G is better, still deadish but the bass regains some thump. Obviously needed the lighter tension. Still hating on the Mittel E. Miss my Stark E. **** it, I put it on. GLORIOUS! At least mostly. Big bottom, nice punch, full and round. That Oliv D/G is quite a couple of strings. I remembered why I liked them so much. The G is still choked or deadish. Just a quick thunk and then overtones. Bummer. The rest of the bass sounds so great I'm taking her to a gig anyhow. Big sound on the gig even outside. The G was usable but I had to work around the short note. The spiros are noticably louder than the Oliv but I've been there before. Just gotta get used to it again. Those Spiro Stark E/Mittel A combos with lighter top strings are very big sounding for me on both basses. Dunno why. I just like it. The Gut in the Oliv makes me smile. Not like a Gamut but feels like home more or less. Pretty close to that "sound". The Stark E on that bass under the bow is a total badass. Roars. Shakes the bass all over the place and has a huge long note all the way up past B. That's worth a whole mess of money right there. Its nice to grab the bow mid phrase and keep the note going into something long and big without a stumble. Can't do that on plywood. Now I gotta learn how to put it down fast enough to get back to the pizz without dropping a beat... The A string is big too. Strong, rich and full. Shakes the bass around like the Stark E. Sweet. The D string is also big with either the Spiro or the Oliv. The Oliv has a better transition to the other oliv and it's got that guttish thing I'm a sucker for. The bottom 3 strings are fantastic. I played most of the gig there. The G is still funky. Playable but nowhere near what I know it can be. My next suspect is the tuning machine. The G string tuner has a nasty bend in it. I suspect it took a major hit, perhaps when the neck broke. I think it's slopping around in the pegbox. The screw holes that hold the little plate are to big and I think it's moving. I suspect the pegbox may have some slop around the cylinder too. Some disconnect between the key and the wood perhaps. I dunno. Oliv aside it doesn't stay solid in tune. I don't think it's in the main box itself. Could be...We'll see. Nnick and I will discuss when he returns from vacation.... On with my obsession. To be continued....... .............................End Copy............................ I switched strings around on both D/G posts and the G remained short sounding. The tuning keys seem like they are fine. Ken's given some suggestions on grooming the takeoff points for the nut and bridge in more detail that I'll do as well. I should also say to be clear, this bass sounds amazing as it sits. I'm just nit picking....
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Salutations from the Land of Cows Phil Maneri Chief Cook and Bottle Washer Fifth Avenue Fret Shop Columbus, OH USA |
#9
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Nice..
Thanks for posting it. She looks beautiful. Job well done by Nick Lloyd.. Enjoy..
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#10
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When I tuned it down a whole and then a half step it sounded amazing. G string thing totally disappeared. The lowered tension seems to be the thing. I do like using slightly higher tension strings though so I wonder if there is something that can allow the tension tolerance to increase.
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Salutations from the Land of Cows Phil Maneri Chief Cook and Bottle Washer Fifth Avenue Fret Shop Columbus, OH USA |
#11
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Phil, I dig your eyes in the photo. No need to carry a lighter...
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