Old German French Model

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Ken, I'm not so sure that isn't a French-made bass. To me, the only real clash is the outside linings. You do occasionally see those on a French-made Hawkes. Have you looked at the internal lining and block work? I wonder if that might have been a special order for someone who wanted outside linings to prevent open seams...?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Ken, I'm not so sure that isn't a French-made bass. To me, the only real clash is the outside linings. You do occasionally see those on a French-made Hawkes. Have you looked at the internal lining and block work? I wonder if that might have been a special order for someone who wanted outside linings to prevent open seams...?

All this is possible but I have seen many German Basses like this but not exactly. The Varnish looks typical German to me. Many Hawkes Basses were also made in Germany and probably most of them! The inner linings look normal sized and German as do the blocks. the Top thickness is not overly thick like on French Basses and the archings of the Top and Back are quite proud and not flattish like on many French Basses. The Top is close to 2" and the Back maybe 2" or more in the arching with a rough measurement. The width and Depth/height of the outer linings/moldings are quite typical for Germany in that period pre-1900. This Bass also has screw hole scars from Plate-type gears which I have never seen on any French Bass.

When you make your next visit 'Maestro', you can examine it in person and confirm which country produced it. I think this is at least as nice in sound as any French Bass of a similar model, condition and age.

My opinion is a combination of deduction (Sherlock style) and previous experience. I welcome all and any other opinions regardless of previous experience. Either way, this is one well made Bass.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

How do you account for the obviously French (and very old) tuners?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

How do you account for the obviously French (and very old) tuners?

Those are NOT original to the Bass. The Bass has several filled in holes around the outer Scroll/Pegbox cheeks from German type gear plates. These tuners were added sometime after 1900 but are not the first tuners that Scroll/Pegbox has seen.

Like I said Maestro, this Bass wants to be French so bad that they even put French tuners on after it was made. Under UV light the Varnish all matches including the Scroll. If you look close at the pictures you will see all the filled holes from the German gear plates that were most likely original to the Bass.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Are there marks showing where the plates were? There should be a difference in color there as well.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Are there marks showing where the plates were? There should be a difference in color there as well.

Can you see all the screw holes in the pictures above? I think that with the current Gears being on the Bass for most of its life and the varnish touch up that the current color/oxidation looks fairly even now. Those plates take about 10 screws and that's how many filled holes I count each side. If the Plates were only on the Bass for about 20 years and the current Gears for 80 years I don't think there would be much difference in the color. The other way around? Yes, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Sorry, I'm not convinced. Bring the bass here tomorrow.