Where are they??

[Jeff Campbell]

Thanks Ken,

Very interesting. I heard the name Venner from an English bass luthier. He was helping me id my Mittenwald bass and said he had one coming into his shop that was very similar to mine made by Venner. On my bass, (the one with the plates on the scroll) there is very clear evidence that some of the inner bracing has been replaced. It is very obvious that someone along the way filled the spaces where the braces used to fit into the linings. I think the four braces. along with the center brace have been replaced. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/4019654...7620999354851/) Photos I've seen in the Elgar book show a Neuner and Hornsteiner bass where the braces were 'let into' the linings - including the center brace. On my bass, you can see where the center brace used to fit under neath the corner blocks. The aforementioned English luthier sent me a photo of the inside of a N & H bass where it was clear that all the inside bracing was fit into the inside linings...My bass is so close to shape, size, etc. (even having the same small-cogged gears) that I'm fairly sure mine is from the same maker - I know that N & H put the label on the center brace and since mine has been replaced, it makes sense that may a reason that here is no label in my bass.

In terms of sound between the two, both are very deep and resonant; organ like if you will. My bass is a little more deep while the other bass is a little more sweet.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Campbell

Thanks Ken,

Very interesting. I heard the name Venner from an English bass luthier. He was helping me id my Mittenwald bass and said he had one coming into his shop that was very similar to mine made by Venner. On my bass, (the one with the plates on the scroll) there is very clear evidence that some of the inner bracing has been replaced. It is very obvious that someone along the way filled the spaces where the braces used to fit into the linings. I think the four braces. along with the center brace have been replaced. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/4019654...7620999354851/) Photos I've seen in the Elgar book show a Neuner and Hornsteiner bass where the braces were 'let into' the linings - including the center brace. On my bass, you can see where the center brace used to fit under neath the corner blocks. The aforementioned English luthier sent me a photo of the inside of a N & H bass where it was clear that all the inside bracing was fit into the inside linings...My bass is so close to shape, size, etc. (even having the same small-cogged gears) that I'm fairly sure mine is from the same maker - I know that N & H put the label on the center brace and since mine has been replaced, it makes sense that may a reason that here is no label in my bass.

In terms of sound between the two, both are very deep and resonant; organ like if you will. My bass is a little more deep while the other bass is a little more sweet.

The Bass with the smaller Scroll looks like N&H. The Pics inside the bass looks Mittenwald. The Button on the Pegbox in the 2nd 'flicker' pic looks N&H as well. If that helps at all..



From http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrume...umente_04.html

But sloped shoulders and wide flat linings.

Your Bass with the longer larger Scroll looks much older than the other bass by at least half a century. Just a guess.

[Jeff Campbell]

Hello Ken,

I've recently come across this instrument. The string length is very long (over 44 - notice the false nut.) The neck joint sits on top of the body. Inside there are five braces, one in the middle (for the sound post) about 3" or so, two for the upper and two for the lower. All the braces are let into the linings. The front is perfled and the back is not. Black strip running down the back. There is an extra turn in the vollute (sp?) Any thoughts? Perhaps this may be a N & H or Mittenwald bass?

[Jeff Campbell]

Oops, forgot to post the pic of the false nut

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Campbell

Oops, forgot to post the pic of the false nut

Nice. I made one as well to correct the D-heel and shorten the string length on this Italian bass.



There are a few ways to do this but in the end, the results are almost the same.

[Jeff Campbell]

You've got me thinking...your original intention of this thread was to find the big old German that folks like Prescott or JB Allen used as a model type for their Yankee instruments. In looking at your Mittenwald bass, the size ratio between the smaller upper bouts and the oversized lower ones looks quite a bit like those used by Prescott. Do you see any similarities or am I way off base here. How does this bass sound? Big and thunderous? Sweet? Clear?
Deep? A couple of things are confusing: the angle break in the back and the golden-ish varnish are not typical of the other Mittenwald basses on this thread. How did you come to decide it was from Mittenwald? Also, in your last response, you cited the bass I posted as perhaps H&H. What is H&H. Did you mean Neuner and Hornsteiner (N&H), or is this a different firm/maker?

I have more photos of yet another bass I've come across which will follow in a day or two.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Campbell

You've got me thinking...your original intention of this thread was to find the big old German that folks like Prescott or JB Allen used as a model type for their Yankee instruments. In looking at your Mittenwald bass, the size ratio between the smaller upper bouts and the oversized lower ones looks quite a bit like those used by Prescott. Do you see any similarities or am I way off base here. How does this bass sound? Big and thunderous? Sweet? Clear?
Deep? A couple of things are confusing: the angle break in the back and the golden-ish varnish are not typical of the other Mittenwald basses on this thread. How did you come to decide it was from Mittenwald? Also, in your last response, you cited the bass I posted as perhaps H&H. What is H&H. Did you mean Neuner and Hornsteiner (N&H), or is this a different firm/maker?

I have more photos of yet another bass I've come across which will follow in a day or two.

Oops.. that was a typo. N&H. They letters are just above one another and was typing too fast, for me that is.. lol

On my Bass, the Scroll is NOT original to that bass. I see it as a later Markneukirchen style end of 19th, early 20th century, gears and all.

The bass itself is red over gold. It came in as a Mittenwald and that's what I think it is. Not necessarily a typical factory model but something more custom. Almost like a copy of a Tarr or Northern English bass.

This to me is nothing at all like a Prescott in its pattern at least not to my eye and nothing like the Yankee sound either. Sounds like good German. Punchy notes with short decay, almost no after ringing inside the bass and even sounding all over. If anything, I would reiterate an English copy in its overall style. The Basses with angle breaks from East Germany thru Prague and even Vienna are diffefent in many ways. The Northerm English copied in part the Germans and here it looks like that flavor. I have also seen another Birdseye maple Mittenwald bass not long ago but that one was much bigger and more typical German all around but with the upper angle break as well. I have heard that they were made both ways in Germany, with and without that angle.

Sound wise I have to say it's still coming. The Bass hasn't seen a Bow in years and it also needs some set-up work and a bit of gluing. Jeff Bollbach will get this when I'm done with my Jobs in mid Summer and make an Extension for it as well. I have the Eurosonics on it right now as that was the only regular 4-string set I had that was 'new' but is not my choice for this bass. It was just something to hear it with. I have a concert Saturday and two jazz tunes as well with a Symphony and I got the jazz part. Last week at the first full rehearsal the bass sounded great thru the amp as well as in the section with the bow. For sound and tone I would say medium power in the mids, sweet on top and shaking the floor a bit on the bottom. It needs a good endpin as well which I know will help the sound. Also, the soundpost felt a bit on the short side and I placed it a bit closer to the F-hole than I normally would to make it fit. I am sure it will sound much better after Jeff is done with it. Regardless, I like the bass as it is and enjoy playing it every chance I get. The bass 'feels' very old and mature as well. It just needs some TLC and some playing. This I can guarantee it will get!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Campbell

Hello Ken,

I've recently come across this instrument. The string length is very long (over 44 - notice the false nut.) The neck joint sits on top of the body. Inside there are five braces, one in the middle (for the sound post) about 3" or so, two for the upper and two for the lower. All the braces are let into the linings. The front is perfled and the back is not. Black strip running down the back. There is an extra turn in the volute (sp?) Any thoughts? Perhaps this may be a N & H or Mittenwald bass?

I would say N&H School at the least. Also, J.A. Baader was working around the same period but the scroll button is similar to the N-H models.

I often wonder with the old talk of cottage industry along with big factories and some bass specialists if there was much subcontracting going on between Firms or actual makers. The Export business was booming from what I have read so the possibility exists I think. Must be a monster sound. Can you post all of the measurements maybe?

My Mittenwalder Bass is starting to puzzle me though. It has the angle break rather then the gentle sloped back, no center back strip, only 4 cross bars in total with one in the center/post position and one across the angle break, the lower bout wide like a full sized bass (28"), the middle bout (14.75") and upper bout (21") like a full 3/4 with a string length of a full 3/4 bass (41.75"). Most of these Mittenwald basses I have seen were uniform in sizes, widths and string lengths, not a hybrid like this one. Mainly I think it's the 28" bottom that puzzles me for its general size. That to me is more like the Northern English Basses of the Tarr school. Perhaps they offered an 'English model' back then in the mid 19th century to compete with the English! Possibly?
According to at least two sources, Mittenwald was making some basses for Tarr, possibly Neuner. Although my Bass is not English, it is more of an English model in design than it is the typical Mittenwald style but sounds like an old German Bass. The Top arch looks Stainerish but the shoulder slope seems almost like a solo bass as compared so some of the other monster Mittenwalders I have seen. Maybe Solo/Orchestra was the model they had in mind. What do you think?