" Name That Bass " aka "This OLD Bass"

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by David Powell

I also see a really strong similarity in the varnish of the MB and the Hill bass.

Can you explain to me what you see as similar, except that it's a shade of orange and worn in spots? I'm not being facetious; I just can't understand how anyone can see a strong similarity - inferring I suppose that it could be in fact the same varnish - from two small photos taken in different light?? Educate me.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Can you explain to me what you see as similar, except that it's a shade of orange and worn in spots? I'm not being facetious; I just can't understand how anyone can see a strong similarity - inferring I suppose that it could be in fact the same varnish - from two small photos taken in different light?? Educate me.

Actually, both Basses were 'shot' in the same room. One on the floor and one against the door. The carpet is almost the same shade so the lighting was similar in each pic. Matt, it's also not just the color. It's the layering with the Gold under the Red giving that orange-red glow. Same basic idea in both Varnishes. The Top of the Hill has had many more repairs then the Back and Ribs. The 'over varnish' has darkened the original color quite a bit. Also, being a smaller Bass by comparison, it has been used quite a bit rather then being stored away due to its cumbersome size like the MB.

Also of note are the C-bouts. While one is Violin and one Gamba, they both have similar curves (long and slightly shallow), especially in lower section. The extra curve needed for the Violin corners should be overlooked and imagined as a Gamba.

Age wise, if the Hill which is confirmed is from the 1780s, then how old does the Mystery Bass look in comparison. The Back and sides on the MB are of a softer variety of Maple than used on the Hill. Perhaps it was imported wood.

The FFs though are completely different in thought. The Hill being of the Amati pattern and the MB more Strad like. See below and compare for yourself;

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Can you explain to me what you see as similar, except that it's a shade of orange and worn in spots? I'm not being facetious; I just can't understand how anyone can see a strong similarity - inferring I suppose that it could be in fact the same varnish - from two small photos taken in different light?? Educate me.

Varnishes and finished wood are notorious for being difficult to photograph accurately, however, the same varnish will always photograph the same way under the same light, in my experience (given the same film or in these days, the same digital camera). I have photographed quite a bit of finished wood professionally, so I have years of first hand experience. One of my clients was Signature Interior Woodworks. They were often tasked with matching a new finish to an old one. This was difficult and getting the two to look the same in a photograph was practically impossible even if the two looked similar to the eye. Vary the light source and it might get better or worse.

What is fairly determinative in this case is that many finishes that appear similar to our eye will not appear similar at all when photographed. Cameras just don't see things the same way our eyes do. The dye peak sensitivities of film or digital cameras are not at the same frequencies as those of our eyes. This means that if two things look the same to our eyes and look the same to a camera or to film, it is even more likely that the substance is the same chemical formulation. Chromatography is a process by which color absorption or reflection is used to definitively identify substances. This is an abbreviated explanation, but covers the concept.

You asked for an education!

[Michael Harrison Jr.]

I really like the cocobola TP, but I think the 3 string TP would look best on that bass.

[Ken Smith]

Here's the other TP that Mike made for my converted 5er I used to have. Sorry in advance that I don't have a close-up of it. I don't remember now if it was Cocobolo or Macassar Ebony which was from my own stock that I supplied to him.


He makes great Tailpieces.

[Michael Harrison Jr.]

very pretty.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by David Powell

What is fairly determinative in this case is that many finishes that appear similar to our eye will not appear similar at all when photographed. Cameras just don't see things the same way our eyes do. The dye peak sensitivities of film or digital cameras are not at the same frequencies as those of our eyes. This means that if two things look the same to our eyes and look the same to a camera or to film, it is even more likely that the substance is the same chemical formulation. Chromatography is a process by which color absorption or reflection is used to definitively identify substances. This is an abbreviated explanation, but covers the concept.

You asked for an education!

So what you are saying in an abbreviated way is that because in two small digital photographs the varnish looks a similar colour to you, even though you have not seen the originals to compare or contrast (as Ken has), and even though your eyes are looking at a digital photograph (which is different to the way your eyes see it anyway) you can still see a really strong similarity in the varnish of the MB and the Hill bass, and this is equivalent to chromatography in that absorption or reflection is used to definitively identify substances, leading you to believe that it is quite likely those two varnishes are the same chemical formulation?

[David Powell]

What I am saying is, of course, what you quoted.

I am not saying that Ken's by eye comparison and my comparison of two digital photograph (size is not important where colour is concerned) is equivalent to chromatography. It is based on the same principle though much cruder. To me the varnishes look similar.

[Ken Smith]

I moved David's post and all the related replies about his Bass to the German School section "Another mystery bass?". Please follow that thread over there.

If any of what I moved belongs here as well in your opinion, please feel free to copy n paste it and re-post it here as well.

[Ken Smith]

I just tried something interesting here. I drew in violin corners on the Back here and cut it out. I curved in the upper bout above the corner and the lower bout below the corner making violin corners. The upper corners are more pronounced than the lower corners but it has Violin corners now on my pics.

Can anyone here photo shop violin corners in and post it here? This is the Back and try also to do the top. Looking at it with corners make it looks so different.



When I have time, I will ask my son Mike to help me post what I have done as well.

[Ken Smith]

I talked with Biase earlier today and he sees the original golden varnish under the over-varnished dark red on the Scroll. What does this mean? Well I have updated our opinion to read; "The Maple Scroll, although varnished over in dark red is most likely original to the Bass as it matches in character as well."