Pecanic Tailpiece

[Bob Branstetter]

OK - we've got a third and a fourth. Anyone got a fifth or maybe a flatted fifth? Or an augmented ???

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

OK - we've got a third and a fourth. Anyone got a fifth or maybe a flatted fifth? Or an augmented ???

Bob, I'm not much of a drinker, sorry..

[Brian Gencarelli]

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the thoughts. Personally, I kind of think afterlength tuning is hooey, too. It may make a difference, but I think as long as you are in the ball park...

On my very first bass I removed the tailpiece completely and it really sounded great! It was a Romanian Hybrid, the finished version of what Kolstein used for his orchestral model bass in the early nineties. I used a wire rig and wrapped each ball end in the wire. No mass equalled a much more resonant bass.

I am very happy with my "Heifetzbass". I pay no attention to what pitches the afterlength is tuned to, and I don't have wolfs, etc... My instrument is old and it moves. I can feel when the weather changes and I know that is stretching the tailpiece wire, string over the bridge, and such.

I was asking more for a colleague that I am sending to Dr. Mike for a new tailpiece. I will probably end up doing the installation. He has one of the Kolstein Carcassi's with the brick (read: cinderblock) of an adjustable tailpiece. I really think it is damping the sound (or at least the response) due to the weight.

I have toyed with putting one of Dr. Mike's compensating tailpiece on my instrument because of the looks. I like "other" woods used other than the traditional ones.

Thanks for the responses. I love hearing all the opinions and "old wives tales" within this realm. It really fascinates me. I really want to be a luthier when I grow up!
Brian

[Ken McKay]

I haven't messed around with TP after length tuning on basses much but do on violins as it can help with carrying power. In a violin I shoot for more power in the 2.5k range. I believe this is standard practice with the better violin set up artists. I don't achieve it consistently and the concept is a bit ellusive. The only way to test for the change in carrying power is to listen far away from the instrument, while it is being played with other instruments. I can get a rough idea of how well this might be achieved by measuring or listening for the right overtones up close to the instrument.

But with a bass it is unclear to me what I would be shooting for. Is there any standard for bass set up regarding afterlength tuning or TP weight?

[stan haskins]

This is interesting . . . After all the discussion about tailpiece tuning, etc . . . I decided to take some measurements (I don't have a stroboscope or anything, all notes were recorded by ear, checked against my reasonably (a=440) well-tuned Klavier . . .)


Tailpiece “chimes” (like a marimba, when I tapped it) just sharp of “C”

After-Length tuned to:
Eb on Gstr,
Bb on Dstring (this one's a little flat)
F on Astring
C on Estring (this seems to be different then everyone elses - tuned to a minor 6th . . .)

Body cavity resonance: A little sharp of G

I'm very curious to find out more about how all of these things interact in the overall tone production . . .

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

I haven't messed around with TP after length tuning on basses much but do on violins as it can help with carrying power. In a violin I shoot for more power in the 2.5k range. I believe this is standard practice with the better violin set up artists. I don't achieve it consistently and the concept is a bit ellusive. The only way to test for the change in carrying power is to listen far away from the instrument, while it is being played with other instruments. I can get a rough idea of how well this might be achieved by measuring or listening for the right overtones up close to the instrument.

But with a bass it is unclear to me what I would be shooting for. Is there any standard for bass set up regarding afterlength tuning or TP weight?

I think that most of us can agree that moving the tailpiece forward or back will change the feel and the response. It's the afterlength tuning to some arbitrary pitch that is a bone of contention. I received most of my early training in the shop of an award winning violin maker. It was here that I learned about the 1/6 rule for after length, My mentor was very good at setting up instruments and tweaking them for best sound. Although he did deviate from the 1/6th rule on occasion, for the most part, the fine tuning consisted of swapping out tailpieces both in different density woods (ebony, rosewood and boxwood) and in style (Std and Hill) which no doubt was basically adding or subtracting weight. He would also swap out different weight and styles of E string adjusters. He must have done a pretty good job with this method since he won several international awards for tone in violin making competition.

I follow the same basic methods as my mentor did. I don't know of any shops that "tune" the afterlength on violin, viola, or cello to an arbitrary pitch the way some do in the doublebass community. I've often thought it would be interesting to ask those who "tune" the afterlength to accurately measure the playable string length and the afterlength and to calculate the ratio.

There seems to be another rule of thumb that heavier tailpieces work best for arco and lighter ones for pizz. I've found this to be true on most instruments, but just as with bridge height adjusters, there are some basses that do not follow this gereralization. My belief is that the optimum weight for a tailpiece is dependent on the afterlength and the vibrating portion of tailgut. If you examine the motion of a tailpiece, you observe that it moves in several directions at once. It twists on it's axis, it goes up and down and it goes side to side. It also vibrates at a constant frequency. Since the tailpiece does is not struck into motion like a marimba bar, the force that sets the tailpiece in motion has to be transfered to it via the afterlength and to a lesser extent the tailwire. Once the mass of the tailpiece is set into motion, some of this motion is sent back to the bridge which in turn sends it to the body of the instrument. If you change either of these, you change the vibrating frequency of the entire tailpiece assembly. You can also change the tailpiece frequency by adding or subtracting weight from the tailpiece. IMO, it is the mass of the tailpiece and the resulting vibrating frequency that has the greatest impact on the responce of the bass.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Bob,
Now you've got me thinking, or second-guessing. I've got what looks like an ebony tailpiece on my bass. At least thats what they told me.
In your experience with pizz playing, how do lighter and heavier tailpieces differ in response. Do they differ in tonal balance, clarity or both?

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Greg Clinkingbeard

Bob,
Now you've got me thinking, or second-guessing. I've got what looks like an ebony tailpiece on my bass. At least thats what they told me.
In your experience with pizz playing, how do lighter and heavier tailpieces differ in response. Do they differ in tonal balance, clarity or both?

Hi Greg,
My personal experience and most of the people I've talked to about it seem to agree that you get "quicker" response with a lighter TP. However, it also seems to make for rougher bowing. Tonal balance? Clarity? I can't say. Not every bass is the same.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Of course, people other than Bob are also free to jump in. Please forgive me.