How high is your bass?

[Matthew Heintz]

Originally Posted by Richard Prowse

I just watched the clip. The first thing I noticed was his very long spike - but the 'finger pointing at the eye' thing was still happening! Oh, and I meant to compliment you on your looks.

Why thank you!

[Eric Hochberg]

Not always pointing at the eye, I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAbtq...eature=related

[Richard Prowse]

Well, I come back to the balance thing. I've now got the bass a little lower and the balance feels good. Time will tell.

[Brian Gencarelli]

As a teacher, I am more concerned with set up from the bow arm. I have students that stand face the bass. The bridge should touch their second knuckles on their bow hand. I don't want them reaching down too much as this causes shoulder problems. I don't worry too much about the eyebrow as long as the bow hand is taken care of. (It usually works out about the same way...)

Sitting is a different pin height, and varies greatly from player to player. Body type, arm length, etc... Even then, I get the bow in the proper place comfortably and the left hand will be just about where it needs to be.

The bow is the true art of playing classically. I focus on it first.

BG

[Joel Larsson]

I like your idea there, Brian. The day I switched focus from left to right hand, well, it was a revelation. No more eyebrows down at the nose tip or head and body turned towards the left hand to see that it was all where it should. I sounded better, too.

I am also brought up in the F -> eye school. Or F# at your ear, actually, but I'm a sitter. And as such, there is no other way than to keep the end pin as retracted as possible; otherwise I won't get around my bass. I could actually use a somewhat smaller bass, methinks...

[Calvin Marks]

There is no standardized way to play. The appropriate height of the instrument will allow you to play through its entire range without having to have your arm reaching too high to play in half position, or conversely forcing you to bend over to play closer to the bridge. There's always that unfortunate trade off when playing such a large instrument.

My best advice in finding the correct height involves the player to stand and use a mirror, a teacher helps of course. The ideal "standard" spot is being able to have your bow arm hang and play halfway between the end of the fingerboard and the bridge. If you're playing in the higher register I push my rear out a bit and let the bass fall into me, or I "hunch" over the shoulders.

This of course is subjective as it relates directly to your height. What's the point in saying, "the F in half pos. should be at your ear..." What happens if you're 6'0" tall?? or conversely 5'3" ???

Karr has the bass so high because he bows directly over the bridge...this "technique" simply does not work for playing in an orchestra.

Rule of thumb...Make the bass as high/low as it needs to be so your bow arm isn't over the fingerboard, or conversely on the bridge. Once you find that sweet spot you can fine tune the height with the relationship to left hand.

I don't know where this entire "your knuckle should hang over the bridge" business came from. When playing the bass there really are no "it has to be's". If your instrument is too high for you you're going to develop a ton of problem for your bow arm and back. Have any of you seen Tom Martin play?? He's about 5'5" and his bow arm is virtually straight in that it just hangs and plays beautifully into the string...There's no silly "knuckle over the bridge" business.


What works for a man/woman of 6'2" is not going to be the same as someone of 5'5"...You also have to take into consideration: The type of music they're playing, the size and shape of their body, and finally the size and shape of their instrument. What's the point of creating rules? The great players always adapt to what works best for their body.

The biggest factor, I think in helping you play the bass is arm length. You can have tiny hands and still find a way to play but having long arms is a BIG help. I'm 5'6" and my upper body is the length of someone of about 5'10" whereas my legs have a 28" inseem...Odd sight, I know! I may be short but I have ridiculous monkey arms which helps a ton.

Moral is...You need to find what you bring the table PHYSICALLY, and then use that to your advantage. So many times you see massive guys with long arms that don't use the muscles they have to their advantage. (This is particularly apparent when you see a guy in an orchestra with the end-pin incredibly far out, yet he/she is still bowing over the fingerboard.

Find your physical strongpoints and utilize them.

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Karr has the bass so high because he bows directly over the bridge...this "technique" simply does not work for playing in an orchestra.

I sure hope you're ready to talk about the detailed, long-term application of Gary's technique which allowed you to conclude that it cannot be applied by anyone in any orchestral setting.

Again, Gary's system is a technical effort to meet physiological and musical goals. As you note, there are many such systems. If you don't like one don't use it. Beyond that, perhaps an open mind is in order (to say nothing of an open ear).

Gary's bass is high enough so that he can reach the bridge. Gary doesn't bow at the bridge all day and night. Anybody who can't bow at their bridge in ergonomic comfort lacks access to the full palette of bass tones.

Gary has had hundreds of students. It's safe to say that
a) All of them play or played in orchestras;
b) Not all of them play using the strictest iteration of Gary's system; and
c) Not all of them ignore Gary's methods utterly.

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Find your physical strongpoints and utilize them.

Find your weaknesses and improve them.
Find the techniques that will allow you play in good health in the long-term and utilize them.
Find the love in your music and let everybody see it.

Over & out.

[Brian Gencarelli]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

I don't know where this entire "your knuckle should hang over the bridge" business came from. When playing the bass there really are no "it has to be's". If your instrument is too high for you you're going to develop a ton of problem for your bow arm and back. Have any of you seen Tom Martin play?? He's about 5'5" and his bow arm is virtually straight in that it just hangs and plays beautifully into the string...There's no silly "knuckle over the bridge" business.

Calvin,

With all due respect, I am getting tired of your tone in the posts you are writing lately...

I don't know you, and you don't know me. I don't think the way I set up my students should be considered "silliness". I have former students playing in orchestras all over the world. They have attended major universities, conservatories, and been very successful. If you would actually take the time to try my "guide" for set up, you might actually find that it works.

I will maintain that the bow hand is the most important aspect of a player's position and that the left hand is secondary to the comfort and ability to reach the entire range of the area from the fingerboard to the bridge without "reaching". Hence, the "second knuckle silliness" that you call it will put the right arm of the player 99.9% of the time in the correct area. Especially in the "traditional" standing position.

If you want to speak about "non-traditional" approaches and how you have to accomodate your physical shortcomings, by all means, feel free to speak on that. It sounds like we are relatively the same build. I sit. I have tried the bent endpins, etc... but the stability I achieve on a stool can not be matched by any standing position period. That's physics and geometry.

Bottom line- If you want to compare resume's and who we have played for, studied with, etc... we can do that. That will not make me a better teacher, nor you a better poster. There is no "right" answer on how to play the bass. We do the best we can. I was giving my perspective to a poster about how I set up bass students. Plain and simple. You chose to use derogatory language for a legitimate approach. Professionalism is a very valuable skill in this business.

Brian