Hawkes & Son.. (The Official KSB Hawkes Bass Discussion Thread)

[Brian Glassman]

Beautiful Hawkes, Ken! Yes, I've often seen Hawkes floating around in various shops and no one seems to know enough about them. What's your sound impressions on yours? Great Panormo-ish shapes to them.

Didn't I read a post of yours once that talked about them being made for the British military bands? Perhaps that would be a good direction for further research?

Thank you for always expanding the collective DB knowledge base.

PS Mazel Tov! on the Big English Gamba Beast, I can just about hear it from N. Jersey

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

Beautiful Hawkes, Ken! Yes, I've often seen Hawkes floating around in various shops and no one seems to know enough about them. What's your sound impressions on yours? Great Panormo-ish shapes to them.

Didn't I read a post of yours once that talked about them being made for the British military bands? Perhaps that would be a good direction for further research?

Thank you for always expanding the collective DB knowledge base.

PS Mazel Tov! on the Big English Gamba Beast, I can just about hear it from N. Jersey

Brian, I don't have one of my own. That Bass belongs to someone else. I just had it here for a week or so and took pics and posted it by permission.

The Gamba beast will go out tonight, first rehearsal. Maybe i will use it in concert on Saturday if I can hit all the notes on it. Playing the Romeo' suite and have a few high note jumps to make. One is octave G to 'E'.. eek.. Another is A harmonic up on the D and then the F below the 2nd octave G on the G-string and crossing over to the C on the D string up in the clouds. Know the piece?

[Ken Smith]

I just got in a beautiful Hawkes Bass. I have played several over the years but this one ranks with the best of them. I gave it from a basic set-up re-cutting the Bridge top and re-slotting the Nut as well as changing the strings.

The Bass has a recent Neck graft but looks to be more of a European type set up with the Neck being thicker and the Fingerboard thinner. The Fingerboard is new with the graft but shaved down quite a bit for that old school gut string set-up. For now I will leave it as-is but if down the road it gets a C-Extension, I will have the Neck re-done as well as a new thicker Fingerboard as well.

This one I believe is an early 'Hawkes & Son' Concert model but has a few things that puzzle me. The Bass seems to be German with slightly narrow outer linings/mouldings but the inner Linings inside are easily an inch wide like we see on French basses but not quite as thick. The Corner Blocks are well scalloped between the corners and the bottom block is quite narrow. With the Ribs being nearly 9" deep the bottom block looks even smaller in its width by comparison.

This Bass (from looking in the pegbox) was made as a 3-string as the old middle hole plug is visible. The conversion must have been done not long after the Bass was made as it has 3 of the original gears but all 4 worms and handles match, just one slightly different Gear. The Gear Plates are the 4-string ones but evidence of 3-string Plates are under these. The Gears now are where my head spins a bit. Most of the Hawkes imports have French Gears. This is on all of the German made models as well as the French 'F' models. The English made 'H' model always has English Baker Gears. This is the Pamormo pattern I am talking about and not the Jacquet Vuillaume model made earlier by Riviere & Hawkes in the 1880s. The Gears themselves look French. The buttons/handles look like English Bakers and the Worms of the Gears are in between Bakers and French Mirecourt Gears. The Gears are also pinned in the back of the Peg Box like some French Basses are done. To date, I have never seen this on German or English Basses.

The wood looks to be German and of high quality with nice flame in the Back and Ribs but the Back flame is much more visible in the raw looking inside the Bass. The Top is nice even gran Spruce with a big of 'bear claw' in it here and there. The Varnish however seems to have faded in hue over time which is something I have seen on a few French Basses, mainly on red varnished instruments fading to an olive brown. This one shows only some fading in areas.

The number that was stamped in the pegbox before getting destroyed in the graft process dates it back to around 1895 or so from what we could find. If anyone has a dating system for the Hawkes Basses or dates and numbers of particular Basses, please share it with us here.

I will have some pics available in the future because my son Mike who does all of new the web pages is away at College and has very little free time when he does come and visit on the occasional weekend.

[Ken Smith]

Here she is, the newest addition to the Hawkes Thread.

Concert model from Germany?



A Luthier friend of mind emailed me pictures of what he thought was a similar bass but other than the basic model and color of Varnish it was quite different. That one (not mine) has a Label in side from Josef Rubner, Markneukirchen. Josef (b.1864, d.1927) is the oldest of this family starting his shop in 1885. His son Otto (b.1885, d.1963) later worked with him and took over the shop. His son Johannes worked with him as well carrying ion the tradition but I think only Joseph or maybe Otto could have been involved in the Hawkes basses.

The differences between the Rubner Hawkes and mine differs in The Scroll, Tuners, F-holes, Back bend, Top bend, Neck Block and outer lining size. It seems that Hawkes & Son contracted them at some point to make Basses as this is labeled but mine by the Tuners seems older and the neck block more of a Mittenwald style than Markneukirchen. It may also be possible that Hawkes & Son contracted more than one shop at a time. In discussing the pictures of my bass it seems that it was more of a handmade bass than something from a factory. Perhaps 'shop-made' where they made a few at a time.

Mine started out as a 3-string and was converted to a 4 with a similar 4th gear added. The Rubner-made Hawkes bass was a 4-string from the start with the gears being quite different. Both basses have some type of French looking Gears but not 100%. The Rubner has French handles and German Gears. Mine has English handles with French Gears.

The two basses look like the same model but interpreted by the shop that was contracted to make them. Later Concert models that I have seen look totally uniform to each other but these two seem something like an early attempt at it.

[Brian Gencarelli]

Nice bass Ken!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Gencarelli

Nice bass Ken!

Yes, thanks.. This one I am fairly certain is from Germany. Another one that we are at least 100% sure that it's from Germany is different in it's features from this one but the model and outline are the same. The Varnish looked the same as well but if mine was a Mittenwald contracted bass and the other Markneukirchen made as labeled, then possibly these were imported 'in the white' and then varnished and completed in London. Also, the gears on both bass although different had 'parts' from France like we see on French basses mainly from Mirecourt. One had French handles on the tuners with nice quality German gears and mine has French Gears and worms but English handles. I doubt that Germany did much trading with France in that respect but I am sure that England imported from both thus my theory.

[Ken Smith]

I took the Hawkes out tonight to an Orchestra rehearsal to see how she sounded and felt. This was a 2 1/2 hour rehearsal with about 2 hours of actual playing (including counting rests and turning pages..)

I was surprised a bit on how it handled. It was actually easy to play a 2 octave C scale on the A string when I was warming up. Going up the D and G was not much of a problem but reaching over to play up the A string to the end of the fingerboard was the true test. I got over the shoulders just fine.

Jed Kriegel who used to work with Arnold made the current Neck and graft as well as setting it out quite nicely. This was by far the easiest to play Hawkes I have ever laid my hands on.