#41
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and..
Jason Sypher just found this and sent it over. An early Deerfield Prescott. This is rare because it has the Cello FFs he used and I have only seen them on the 4/4 cello model Basses. This is a Busetto with the Cello FFs.. A first for me..
With this info from the Met Museum; This information may change as the result of ongoing research. * This database record may be in completed or unedited. Attributed to Abraham Prescott Object Name Bass Viol Date ca. 1820 Geography Deerfield, New Hampshire, United States Medium Wood Dimensions Total L. 200 cm (78-3/4 in.); Body L. 120.6 cm (47-7/16 in.); String L. 109.6 cm (43-3/16 in.); Upper bouts 52.7 cm (20-3/4 in.); Center bouts 28 cm (11-1/16 in.); Lower bouts 72.9 cm (28-11/16 in.) Credit Line Purchase, Rogers Fund, 1980 Accession Number1980.492 Thanks Jason.. |
#42
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Hey Ken, this relates back to our discussion in posts 20-24 of this thread. I did see a light colored, large busetto w/ cello f's and a Prescott-like scroll, like this bass, at Barrie's once about 5 yrs ago. Perhaps they were the same model, that would make two.
BG |
#43
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ok..
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#44
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from Michael Glynn, copied to here.
This was posted in another thread but thought it would be valuable as well to copy over to this one.
As I've mentioned on that "other" bass site, I believe the rounded lower corners and f-hole designs on that instrument are derived from the viola d'amore family. Another thread here showed a bass by Woodbury and Burditt that also shows some of these more exaggerated viola d'amore type features (for example, compare it to this viola d'amore), but with standard f-holes. This bass makes me wonder if at least part of the inspiration for the rounded lower corners on many early American basses came from true viola d'amore style instruments, rather than simply Mittenwald basses with rounded lower corners. Here is a modern reproduction of a violone made in Nuremberg in 1640 with strong viola d'amore features as another comparison to the Woodbury and Burditt instrument. Incidentally, while looking up some stuff on Woodbury and Burditt (and it seems their basses may have been actually made by William Conant) I found this interesting notice from the "Fourth Exhibition of the Massachusetts Charitable Mechanic Association" in 1844, mentioning a musicial instrument competition that included instruments from Woodbury and Burditt, Prescott, Dearborn and others. This notice from their first exhibition in 1837 mentions basses and cellos by Prescott, the Dearborns, J.B. Allen, and Henry Prentiss. It also mentions that, regarding the basses and cellos:
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#45
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Quote:
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#46
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Bromberg
[quote=Ken Smith;258]The Banjo guy? No, never met him. All I have to offer at the moment is the Batchelder Bass but enjoy talking about it.
Ken, David Bromberg is probably the formost authority on American Violin makers and probably possesses the largest collection. Back in the 60s he was on many popular albums as a back up player; guitar and sometimes fiddle. He later attended and graduated from the Chicago School of Violin Making. He used to come into my shop fairly often when I was in downtown Chicago. He was traveling all over the world then buying and selling instruments and bows. Last I heard he had opened a violin shop in the east. Great Thread! |
#47
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ok...?
[quote=Martin Sheridan;16703]
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Most of the American makers that made basses made basses. A few made mainly Violins and some basses. The Wenberg book has about the most published on American makers than all the English and European books combined. Stil, I find some makers missing like the actual Batchelder that made my old bass. As with any book, if they made mainly basses, they might be left out of books when written as the names are not known about to them. Boston's mid 19th century Asa and Jay White made both as did the elder August and George Gemunder did in Springfield Mass. before moving to New York. |
#48
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+
Not as far as I know. He was interested in my basses in a general way, but he's really a violin collector.
Thanks for bringing so much information together on the American makers, there's a real hole in the knowledge about bass makers generally. The VSA Journal had an article on some Germans who made basses in Pennsylvania some years back. The black bass above attributed to Prescott looks very similar to their work. |
#49
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Black Bass?
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It is also believer than Prescott used an only English Viol for his long Scroll/pegbox design. His basses were all originally 3-string from what I have seen and the heads can easily take 5 or even 6 tuners in them. I guess this is what you get generally when makers partly copy and partly think on their own. The first time I saw the G. Gemunder bass I asked if it was an old Bernardel! The first time I saw the G.Gemunder I thought it was Gagliano school bass. The later made NY Gemunder Basses look mainly German to me, imported from there and finished up over here. Without the Label they are German shop basses for the most part. If they were made here then there was no originality at all in the design as they are perfect models of the German basses from the end of the 19th to the early 20th century. Well anyway, the more you see, the more you know. Thus is the case as long as what you compare them to are correctly known models/makers as well. |
#50
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I have read that Klotz' designs were the basis for Prescott, not Hornsteiner's.
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#51
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well..
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Hey, I would love to see a REAL Confirmed Mathius Klotz Double Bass. The last tine I saw something that looked like a M. Klotz, it had a famous Italian name. |
#52
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I'm pretty sure Prescott pre-dated the Hornsteiner shop.
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#53
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oh?
Quote:
Remember that Thread I started called Where are They?? I started that Thread because I knew there were old Mittenwald basses by these families but rarely seen here in USA or on the internet anywhere. They were made but probably scarce in comparision and just not available for sale that we ever see. Just because a bass is very old, large and has lower rounded corners does not make it a Klotz unless it was made by one of that family. |
#54
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Klotz
I had read that the Busetto cornered Prescott basses were a copy of a Klotz. The Klotz family continued generation after generation. I think I remember seeing a Klotz violin from the early 20th century. Some think the first Klotz studied in Cremona with Amati.
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#55
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think..
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When looking at the work of del Busetto, what little has been found it seems way to early in time to be anything like that big bat winged F hole bass they named after him. Now what we have is confusion. Maybe started by the dealers as far as who made what or trained with whom including Stainer and the term 'Busetto corner'. What a mess!! |
#56
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Busetto
I have never found any evidence of basses by Busetto either. We don't know how many studied with Amati because they are not mentioned in the census of his household if they didn't live with him, so I don't think anyone really knows where Klotz learned, but they like to make that Italian connection.
By the way, my cousin is married to an Italian, can I claim my basses as Italian? Sounds like a close enough connection to me, and I could raise my prices. One that I find amusing is Morrelli who was a German who just used that name. Even his stuff brings more than a comparable German maker from the 30s even though everyone in the biz knows he was German. Any other time I'd remember his real name, but right now that would require me to think; it's been a long day and I want a drink before I do anymore thinking. best, |
#57
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Morelli?
Quote:
On Klotz it is known to a degree that M.Klotz the eldest Mittenwald maker trained with Fussen maker Giovanni Railich that had settled in Padua Italy. Klotz is believed to have trained first in Fussen or Vils or maybe even with Stainer and then spent 6 years in Padua before returning to Mittenwald. The Families of Klotz, Neuner, Hornsteiner and Baader came one after another sometimes working with each other, in competition of each other or independently. Mittenwald for some time was THE world center for Violin production. This is one of the tangled webs we find in this business. Who did what when or where and to who or with whom. I bet the Germans over there today could easily put this mystery in order much easier then we can but still, many things were just not well recorded. As far as what Bass or BassES Prescott actually copied, dig up his grave and ask him! My main point is that it's a bit irresponsible in this business to point every thing 'Bass' from Mittenwald to the Klotz family. They were first but were not alone for long as in the early 18th century, the demand grew as did the makers, families and firms providing instruments. |
#58
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I was in Mittenwald several years back, and walking around this most amazingly picturesque Alps town, I came upon a beautiful statue in the center of town. Who, you ask, is portrayed there? Matthias Klotz. Maybe somebody with better internet skills can find & post a picture here. BTW, Ken, I think you are right about Hornsteiner. I believe I was thinking of the more modern, commercial Neuner & Hornsteiner basses.
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#59
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Hornsteiner..
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#60
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