Smith Bass Design and its History (The on-line Book in the making)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Wolliston

Hi Ken....Another question for you. How come you don't have Many Signature Model bass guitars apart from the Mel Davis 7 string bass? Mostly all other companies use folks to push their product, hence a hike in the price of their basses.

What, my name isn't enough?

I think that Signature Models are for cheaper brands for the most part so kids can buy the 'supposed' brand of their heroes. Do you think Stanley Clarke cares what Anthony Jackson plays?

We are not in the gimmick business, sorry.

In the high end, the bass itself needs no signature other than what's there.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

What, my name isn't enough?

I think that Signature Models are for cheaper brands for the most part so kids can buy the 'supposed' brand of their heroes. Do you think Stanley Clarke cares what Anthony Jackson plays?

We are not in the gimmick business, sorry.

In the high end, the bass itself needs no signature other than what's there.

Yes, a big +1 to that!

[fernandobicho]

Hello! Great answer. I never liked signature models.

[Desmund Nichols]

I read somewhere (probably Wikipedia) that you are the first Luthier to SUCCESSFULLY build an operating Contrabass. My question is how come you stopped making them?

[Joshua Phelps]

Sooooo people are still rehashing these old stories after all these years? Was there even any REAL falling out?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Joshua Phelps

Sooooo people are still rehashing these old stories after all these years? Was there even any REAL falling out?

My relationship with CT had nothing ever to do with VF. Totally different time periods. I don't know about a falling out with Carl. That is news to me. I did ask him before I started my company if he was interested in my design when we worked together on a personal bass that became my proto-proto-type but he and his partner Joel were not interested. That was the end of that. I brought many people to Carl over the years for repairs and a bass or two. I have nothing against him and never did. I think we were friends to a degree. I have more stories to tell but it serves no purpose on this subject. I was around him quite a bit in the early-mid '70s and he was always nice to me, personally and in business.

On the other person or company mentioned, what was agreed on when I sold him/them(Vinnie, Joey and Alex) the shop contents back in 1983 and what actually happened is not exactly as I expected. When you have a business with partners, what one guy 'says' or promises might not be what actually happens.

Judge the Smith basses for what the are, how they play, how the sound and the various features and details that go into them. Compare the products themselves. Not the advertising or players that use them. Many basses have been given away for free or nearly free at the expense of the general buyer by some companies so would be customers think that is a choice made by the player. If you have a Smith bass and have a visible presence around the world playing one and someone comes and offers you a bass for free, would you take it or play the bass you think is better without being told all the names on the roster they have?

I don't chase after players to sell basses. It's tacky and immature. If that's how they have to survive, then that's their business method, not mine.

Those of you that have called me, emailed me or came for a visit know that I answer all your questions and even go beyond that to explain and even teach why some things are the way they are with Smith basses. The things I read on TB that some say about me are often widely exaggerated or outright false. Talk about the bashing bandwagon. That's one of the main reasons I was banned there. For defending myself and telling the Mods how great a job they were NOT doing. Telling a Mod anything bad is an offense there. So, I had my hands tied, broke loose in a way and told one of the Mods what I thought, in Private. I am not some corporate Billboard. I am a person running a business but most of all, a Person. I play Bass. That is why I am here to begin with in this business. If I was not a professional bassist in NYC, this product would have never come about.

Think for a minute what may have spawned from my models, designs and ideas in basses today around the world. Imagine the bass world if I had never stepped into it!

When you have called here, I took your call if I was near my office and answered all your questions. If you emailed, I gave you all the facts as soon as I could email you back. Sometimes, it's not what one want's to hear. That I can't help. I am not a customer service agent 'yessing' you on everything you say so you the customer is always right. I am the owner and founder of this company and I can only explain what we do and don't do. Sometimes we can bend a little on what we make but in selling a model, or any of the models, to get the results WE expect, I have to be the final word on what we will do or will not do.

I was listening on the news last night just after the storm (Sandy) and NJ Gov. Christie on hearing the Prez.(Obama) was coming to look at the damage, the Gov. said he doesn't care about that or presidential politics now. Something like, 'If you know me, you know I don't give a .....' along those lines about who's coming. "right now (he said), we have to help the people without power and homes and food and shelter etc."

Now, I am not trying to compare myself to Gov. Christie in any way other than to point out, when you have things to do, you have to get them done. When I get questions, I answer them. I do NOT sell Dreams or Promises. I don't hold hands either. We make basses and the website shows countless pictured examples of our work with plenty of text to go with it. Youtube has tons of videos of guys with Smith basses as well. That is advertising you just can't buy. Let me say now a BIG Thank You to all those making videos on YT and FB as well. It's a joy for me personally seeing people play and love their Smith basses enough to put themselves on-line playing one and even talking about it on occasion. Thanks Guys AND Gals.. A few Girls I know play them too..

I can easily have a sweet sounding cust. service girl on the phone here that will take your messages (or not) and then explain in her words what I told her to say and how to answer a technical question but after trying that approach for years (with guys too), too much misinformation went out. Wouldn't you rather the first answer be the accurate one? That's why I take all the calls on basses now. It cuts out most of the confusion if not all of it.

I guess you need to think, 'how can I get my work done here talking all day (or night) on the phone or on the computer and get the basses made as well?' Right?

The answer is 'short and sweet', but not always sweet. I want you to get the correct information to your questions but I am not so good at buttering them up. That is something people might say about me, 'short and to the point'. After 50 emails in a day, it doesn't seem short to me.

On people asking for parts for other basses or mods to current Smith basses, old and current models, I tell you all that I know. It's free. You just have to ask.

[Desmund Nichols]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

My relationship with CT had nothing ever to do with VF. Totally different time periods. I don't know about a falling out with Carl. That is news to me. I did ask him before I started my company if he was interested in my design when we worked together on a personal bass that became my proto-proto-type but he and his partner Joel were not interested. That was the end of that. I brought many people to Carl over the years for repairs and a bass or two. I have nothing against him and never did. I think we were friends to a degree. I have more stories to tell but it serves no purpose on this subject. I was around him quite a bit in the early-mid '70s and he was always nice to me, personally and in business.

On the other person or company mentioned, what was agreed on when I sold him/them(Vinnie, Joey and Alex) the shop contents back in 1983 and what actually happened is not exactly as I expected. When you have a business with partners, what one guy 'says' or promises might not be what actually happens.

Judge the Smith basses for what the are, how they play, how the sound and the various features and details that go into them. Compare the products themselves. Not the advertising or players that use them. Many basses have been given away for free or nearly free at the expense of the general buyer by some companies so would be customers think that is a choice made by the player. If you have a Smith bass and have a visible presence around the world playing one and someone comes and offers you a bass for free, would you take it or play the bass you think is better without being told all the names on the roster they have?

I don't chase after players to sell basses. It's tacky and immature. If that's how they have to survive, then that's their business method, not mine.

Those of you that have called me, emailed me or came for a visit know that I answer all your questions and even go beyond that to explain and even teach why some things are the way they are with Smith basses. The things I read on TB that some say about me are often widely exaggerated or outright false. Talk about the bashing bandwagon. That's one of the main reasons I was banned there. For defending myself and telling the Mods how great a job they were NOT doing. Telling a Mod anything bad is an offense there. So, I had my hands tied, broke loose in a way and told one of the Mods what I thought, in Private. I am not some corporate Billboard. I am a person running a business but most of all, a Person. I play Bass. That is why I am here to begin with in this business. If I was not a professional bassist in NYC, this product would have never come about.

Think for a minute what may have spawned from my models, designs and ideas in basses today around the world. Imagine the bass world if I had never stepped into it!

When you have called here, I took your call if I was near my office and answered all your questions. If you emailed, I gave you all the facts as soon as I could email you back. Sometimes, it's not what one want's to hear. That I can't help. I am not a customer service agent 'yessing' you on everything you say so you the customer is always right. I am the owner and founder of this company and I can only explain what we do and don't do. Sometimes we can bend a little on what we make but in selling a model, or any of the models, to get the results WE expect, I have to be the final word on what we will do or will not do.

I was listening on the news last night just after the storm (Sandy) and NJ Gov. Christie on hearing the Prez.(Obama) was coming to look at the damage, the Gov. said he doesn't care about that or presidential politics now. Something like, 'If you know me, you know I don't give a .....' along those lines about who's coming. "right now (he said), we have to help the people without power and homes and food and shelter etc."

Now, I am not trying to compare myself to Gov. Christie in any way other than to point out, when you have things to do, you have to get them done. When I get questions, I answer them. I do NOT sell Dreams or Promises. I don't hold hands either. We make basses and the website shows countless pictured examples of our work with plenty of text to go with it. Youtube has tons of videos of guys with Smith basses as well. That is advertising you just can't buy. Let me say now a BIG Thank You to all those making videos on YT and FB as well. It's a joy for me personally seeing people play and love their Smith basses enough to put themselves on-line playing one and even talking about it on occasion. Thanks Guys AND Gals.. A few Girls I know play them too..

I can easily have a sweet sounding cust. service girl on the phone here that will take your messages (or not) and then explain in her words what I told her to say and how to answer a technical question but after trying that approach for years (with guys too), too much misinformation went out. Wouldn't you rather the first answer be the accurate one? That's why I take all the calls on basses now. It cuts out most of the confusion if not all of it.

I guess you need to think, 'how can I get my work done here talking all day (or night) on the phone or on the computer and get the basses made as well?' Right?

The answer is 'short and sweet', but not always sweet. I want you to get the correct information to your questions but I am not so good at buttering them up. That is something people might say about me, 'short and to the point'. After 50 emails in a day, it doesn't seem short to me.

On people asking for parts for other basses or mods to current Smith basses, old and current models, I tell you all that I know. It's free. You just have to ask.

Always helped me out. Surprisingly, you are available to chat on the phone and stuff. I been to the shop a couple of times, and it was a good time. I never been on a tour though, I keep forgetting. Sometimes I feel guilty asking all the questions because I figure he isnt building while he is on the phone, or internet, or discussing in person. I must say, Ken does a good job juggling running a business, building, discussing, and answering questions. I always enjoy it. If I lived closer, I would probably go by more often. I drive a Jeep, and have never spoke with the CEO of Daimler Chrysler. I have an iPad and never spoke to Steve Jobs. I play a Smith bass, and I deal directly with Ken Smith, its a good feeling. I look forward to my next visit. My pot (if thats the hole I put the cable in) is acting up again, so I have to make a visit soon.

Not for nothing, its a good thing I don't live that close, because I would want to just make random visits to the shop to check on my bass on order, and we all know how annoying that is.

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

My relationship with CT had nothing ever to do with VF. Totally different time periods. I don't know about a falling out with Carl. That is news to me. I did ask him before I started my company if he was interested in my design when we worked together on a personal bass that became my proto-proto-type but he and his partner Joel were not interested. That was the end of that. I brought many people to Carl over the years for repairs and a bass or two. I have nothing against him and never did. I think we were friends to a degree. I have more stories to tell but it serves no purpose on this subject. I was around him quite a bit in the early-mid '70s and he was always nice to me, personally and in business.

On the other person or company mentioned, what was agreed on when I sold him/them(Vinnie, Joey and Alex) the shop contents back in 1983 and what actually happened is not exactly as I expected. When you have a business with partners, what one guy 'says' or promises might not be what actually happens.

Judge the Smith basses for what the are, how they play, how the sound and the various features and details that go into them. Compare the products themselves. Not the advertising or players that use them. Many basses have been given away for free or nearly free at the expense of the general buyer by some companies so would be customers think that is a choice made by the player. If you have a Smith bass and have a visible presence around the world playing one and someone comes and offers you a bass for free, would you take it or play the bass you think is better without being told all the names on the roster they have?

I don't chase after players to sell basses. It's tacky and immature. If that's how they have to survive, then that's their business method, not mine.

Those of you that have called me, emailed me or came for a visit know that I answer all your questions and even go beyond that to explain and even teach why some things are the way they are with Smith basses. The things I read on TB that some say about me are often widely exaggerated or outright false. Talk about the bashing bandwagon. That's one of the main reasons I was banned there. For defending myself and telling the Mods how great a job they were NOT doing. Telling a Mod anything bad is an offense there. So, I had my hands tied, broke loose in a way and told one of the Mods what I thought, in Private. I am not some corporate Billboard. I am a person running a business but most of all, a Person. I play Bass. That is why I am here to begin with in this business. If I was not a professional bassist in NYC, this product would have never come about.

Think for a minute what may have spawned from my models, designs and ideas in basses today around the world. Imagine the bass world if I had never stepped into it!

When you have called here, I took your call if I was near my office and answered all your questions. If you emailed, I gave you all the facts as soon as I could email you back. Sometimes, it's not what one want's to hear. That I can't help. I am not a customer service agent 'yessing' you on everything you say so you the customer is always right. I am the owner and founder of this company and I can only explain what we do and don't do. Sometimes we can bend a little on what we make but in selling a model, or any of the models, to get the results WE expect, I have to be the final word on what we will do or will not do.

I was listening on the news last night just after the storm (Sandy) and NJ Gov. Christie on hearing the Prez.(Obama) was coming to look at the damage, the Gov. said he doesn't care about that or presidential politics now. Something like, 'If you know me, you know I don't give a .....' along those lines about who's coming. "right now (he said), we have to help the people without power and homes and food and shelter etc."

Now, I am not trying to compare myself to Gov. Christie in any way other than to point out, when you have things to do, you have to get them done. When I get questions, I answer them. I do NOT sell Dreams or Promises. I don't hold hands either. We make basses and the website shows countless pictured examples of our work with plenty of text to go with it. Youtube has tons of videos of guys with Smith basses as well. That is advertising you just can't buy. Let me say now a BIG Thank You to all those making videos on YT and FB as well. It's a joy for me personally seeing people play and love their Smith basses enough to put themselves on-line playing one and even talking about it on occasion. Thanks Guys AND Gals.. A few Girls I know play them too..

I can easily have a sweet sounding cust. service girl on the phone here that will take your messages (or not) and then explain in her words what I told her to say and how to answer a technical question but after trying that approach for years (with guys too), too much misinformation went out. Wouldn't you rather the first answer be the accurate one? That's why I take all the calls on basses now. It cuts out most of the confusion if not all of it.

I guess you need to think, 'how can I get my work done here talking all day (or night) on the phone or on the computer and get the basses made as well?' Right?

The answer is 'short and sweet', but not always sweet. I want you to get the correct information to your questions but I am not so good at buttering them up. That is something people might say about me, 'short and to the point'. After 50 emails in a day, it doesn't seem short to me.

On people asking for parts for other basses or mods to current Smith basses, old and current models, I tell you all that I know. It's free. You just have to ask.

Besides the great basses he makes, the above statement from Ken is one of those things I love: No BS and get it straight. Amazing how one can be offended with truth and facts. Bottom line: If you don't get the answer or hear what you'd expect or want, than go elsewhere to get it. Oh, you'll get it and you won't have to look far. Those folks are a dime-a-dozen. Good luck with that.

And don't even get me started on the 'Endorsement King's and Queen's' out there. Unless they are proven, could not be more unimpressed with "Signature" model instruments or the names tied to them.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Desmund Nichols

I read somewhere (probably Wikipedia) that you are the first Luthier to SUCCESSFULLY build an operating Contrabass. My question is how come you stopped making them?

Contra-Bass is just another name for a 6-string bass. That's what Anthony Jackson calls it. Your bass on order will be a contra-bass as well by his description. It is just a name.

In old instruments centuries ago, when the violin family developed and replaced the Viols, the Cello was the bass voice. The Double Bass was pitched an octave lower when it was finally developed as an orchestral instrument.

When you read bass music, you are transposing up from one octave lower. The Tuba reads the music 'written' an octave lower at the regular Pitch. The actual pitch of the C note 2 ledger lines below the staff is the C on your A-string, 3rd fret (if it's fretted). But, when you read that note for bass, it is the second space on the staff. That note read by a piano or tuba would sound an octave higher. The lowest note on the cello is that low C below the staff. We play the exact same note and pitch on the 2nd space. If we play the low C on a B-string, first fret, it sounds an octave lower than the cello, hence, the double bass, or contra-bass.

So, here endith the lesson, for now!

[Bryan L Williams]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

In old instruments centuries ago, when the violin family developed and replaced the Viols, the Cello was the bass voice. The Double Bass was pitched an octave lower when it was finally developed as an orchestral instrument.

When you read bass music, you are transposing up from one octave lower. The Tuba reads the music 'written' an octave lower at the regular Pitch. The actual pitch of the C note 2 ledger lines below the staff is the C on your A-string, 3rd fret (if it's fretted). But, when you read that note for bass, it is the second space on the staff. That note read by a piano or tuba would sound an octave higher. The lowest note on the cello is that low C below the staff. We play the exact same note and pitch on the 2nd space. If we play the low C on a B-string, first fret, it sounds an octave lower than the cello, hence, the double bass, or contra-bass.

So, tuning a 4-string "bass" CGDA (one octave below a cello) would seem to be the way to go...a Contracello.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bryan L Williams

So, tuning a 4-string "bass" CGDA (one octave below a cello) would seem to be the way to go...a Contracello.

Not unless you wanna stretch your fingers like never before and or pivoting and shifting more than on a regular tuned bass.

EADG from the bottom is the standard now for 100 years or so but in use even longer. Low B on a 5er and low C on an Extension 4'er. That's what 99+% of the bass players in the world use.

[Joshua Phelps]

I do strongly dislike when companies give basses away to high profile players then charge much less know players & hobists $10.000 & a 1 year waiting period for a very average bass. That's one thing I've always liked about smith basses is they dont give them away. That & they are great basses for a very reasonable price.

[Desmund Nichols]

Originally Posted by Joshua Phelps

I do strongly dislike when companies give basses away to high profile players then charge much less know players & hobists $10.000 & a 1 year waiting period for a very average bass. That's one thing I've always liked about smith basses is they dont give them away. That & they are great basses for a very reasonable price.

So all those guys get a free "signature" bass? I never knew that.