Tyrol, bohemian , German?

[Carlos Villarreal]

Hi Ken:

This is great information, the owner was unsure but he assumed that it was early 1800,s ....i,ll have a luthier check for the block, but it feel like it has one on the sides below the neck.

The instrument sounds very nice, definitly has ths the complexity of sound of an old instrument in good day I think is better than a so so Italian. Although it has several repaired cracks , For the past 18 years after its restoration has remained in very good condition with no buzzes or cracks.. I understand puting a price is very difficult whithout inspecting the bass in person, but would you say 15 k is an average price for a bass as this.

Again i really apreciate your input, tnx a lot,

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Carlos Villarreal

Hi Ken:

This is great information, the owner was unsure but he assumed that it was early 1800,s ....i,ll have a luthier check for the block, but it feel like it has one on the sides below the neck.

The instrument sounds very nice, definitely has the the complexity of sound of an old instrument in good day I think is better than a so so Italian. Although it has several repaired cracks , For the past 18 years after its restoration has remained in very good condition with no buzzes or cracks.. I understand putting a price is very difficult without inspecting the bass in person, but would you say 15 k is an average price for a bass as this.

Again i really appreciate your input, tnx a lot,

If the bass is fully blocked, restored to 'Museum quality' and sounds Italian, then yes, maybe! I would need to see it in person to do a full valuation for a real personal opinion. This is just talk! Mine is in repair now and will cost at least that for the repairs alone. For a regular old $100 blockless bass I would say no way. They were made cheap to sound old when new. Make sure the bassbar area has no sinkage. I am having my bass' Top fully pressed out and repaired inside to last a lifetime or more. Mine sounds beautiful as well and that's the reason I bought it and am spending an insane amount fixing it.

Also, this style of building is at least 200 years old so late 1800s is possible. The import dates of the Ads I mentioned above do not necessarily date your exact bass. It could just the the period in which they started buying them for the USA market..

[Carlos Villarreal]

Hi Ken:

I just check today for the block me and a luthier/bassist friend of mine and YES there is a block there. Not a very big one but there is one. I also called bassmaker David Estrada who did the restoration 18 years ago and told me the block was there already, he just reasembled that part. So most likly as you said it was already blocked and probably had also another neck put in way earlier. This bass was brought from Poland to Mexico 20 years ago, and before that I been told it was stored for around 40 years.

David who did the restoration believes it to be early 1800,s based on his experience with wood oxidation, but again its just his speculation. We also checked the bass bar area and there is no sinkage at all, the Top has a very nice oval shape (bombatura).

Anyhow i just close the deal today and I,m buying it based on its unique dark sound, easiness of respone with the bow, and overall complexity of tone. Most likely I,ll use it for chamber music and at home, NOT for the tours.
Again thanks for your sharing your research on this "Blockless wonders" or "poor man italian,s".

[Ken Smith]

The best of luck to you and your new bass. It's always best for the bass to find a new home.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

Carlos, do you know if your bass has an integral bass bar or not. I have just begun restoration on a 7/8 that fits the description of the lowest model-the purflingless one that Ken describes. Mine has an integral bass bar. The top looks like it has kept it shape, so I am wanting to leave it in-Any suggestions from anyone? I am encouraged that mine has a possibility of sounding better than I anticipated. Thanks

NO! Scrape it out. It is NOT a Bassbar. It only 'looks' like one. The shape is good by luck, not by design. Make it into a real bass with a proper 'Bar and all the correct blocks, neck stand, angle etc.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

Ken, are these so-called integral bars---should they always be scraped out? Or, does a new bar installed always help the bass, if so, how? Just trying to learn something here- thanks

If the 'Bar is part of the Top then it doesn't function like a Bar either. Also, do not spring the Bar when you put the real one in. Arnold can explain it better than I can but a chunk of wood left in the Top does not act like a real bass-bar does in just about every-way. You are not putting in a 'new' bar. You are putting in its 'first' bar. It never had one!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

okay, thanks Ken-Yes, I have already learned my lesson on the springing-in

Arnold, no hurry, but if you have the time-please explain

Anyone else have any experience or words of wisdom about removing an "integral bar" and installing a new bass bar? Is there a big difference?
thanks

What, don't you trust me? Can you count on your fingers the number of Luthiers that RUIN basses with bad bass bars or sprung in or integral left in?

Trust me when I tell you that I cannot count the number of basses that have gone thru my hands. Now you just need to do it and/or learn how to. There is no other option as far as repairing the bass and making it right as far as I can see.

If Arnold has time I am sure he will try to explain it. Right now he has to finish the C extension on my big English Bass (Panormo School), pour the top mold for the Storioni and get that bass going and completed this year and then finish one of his basses so he can start the copy bass and finish that as well b4 x-mas. I will be a very very happy man if all goes as planned. .. Then, he can log on and answer questions... lol

Practice practice practice..