Getting crazy on talk sites.

[Richard Prowse]

"What really insulted me was that he referred to me as "this guy", as if I was some "thing" that wasn't included in this community.
I did call this person a "jerk" and said a couple other unkind things..."
Gosh, normally when you call someone a 'jerk' you expect that he's not going to want to be you best friend!
Paul, I found the things you said about me and my country ("NZ crapola thread") disrespectful, not that you probably care.
Hey, but that's life.
Bye Oren, E.Joel and Anselm.
Good luck, my friends.

Ken, can you please close my account now and delete what you like.
Thanks.
Good luck for the future.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Richard Prowse

"What really insulted me was that he referred to me as "this guy", as if I was some "thing" that wasn't included in this community.
I did call this person a "jerk" and said a couple other unkind things..."
Gosh, normally when you call someone a 'jerk' you expect that he's not going to want to be you best friend!
Paul, I found the things you said about me and my country ("NZ crapola thread") disrespectful, not that you probably care.
Hey, but that's life.
Bye Oren, E.Joel and Anselm.
Good luck, my friends.

Ken, can you please close my account now and delete what you like.
Thanks.
Good luck for the future.

I just looked at your profile and you X'd out all your information. Did you say you were a public school teacher? Have any of the parents of the students you teach read your Threads here? Unless the culture down in NZ is something on the flip side, I would be more concerned about that than what people here say.

I know you put a lot of time into your Threads and Posts but the silly stuff has to come to an end sometime. A joke here and there is fine but this has become borderline insane. Maybe even south of the border!

If you are reading this feel free to reply.

Hey, I come from working the night scene in NYC. In the clubs there it's so tough that the hat check girl stabs you goodnight! .. Her name is Nunzio..

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Hey, I come from working the night scene in NYC. In the clubs there it's so tough that the hat check girl stabs you goodnight!

NYC is a cold and tough place. First gig there for me was @ The Vangaurd. The table right in front was filled with a who's who of jazz bass in the world....Haden, Buster, Cecil McBee and a couple others. I thought "All Right....the boys come to check me out!" A friend told me later..."Naw, they just wanted to see your bass."

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

NYC is a cold and tough place. First gig there for me was @ The Vangaurd. The table right in front was filled with a who's who of jazz bass in the world....Haden, Buster, Cecil McBee and a couple others. I thought "All Right....the boys come to check me out!" A friend told me later..."Naw, they just wanted to see your bass."

From everything I've read (albeit I know virtually nothing about Jazz) it seems that life as a professional jazz musician can be incredibly difficult, especially in the beginning. Would you all assess my opinion as on mark? At least with classical bass there is the prospect of auditions and getting some form of tenured position, whereas with Jazz, it's all about reputation and couple bad gigs can break you...Please stop me if I'm incorrect. Tough life indeed.

[Paul Warburton]

As you probably know, NYC is the epi center of Jazz. As with all things in life, there are trade-offs involved. That's where the best players at least go through consistantly to play the clubs, concert halls and educational venues. Many of the greatest living players either live in the city or in close surrounding areas. The negatives are there, off course, but the musical pay backs are huge.
I've thought about it many times and am giving serious thought to giving it a shot.
A good musical reputation and some word of mouth can help, as can friends in the area.
Would I walk in there with some kind of "attitude"? Nope. Not on your life.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

As you probably know, NYC is the epi center of Jazz. As with all things in life, there are trade-offs involved. That's where the best players at least go through consistantly to play the clubs, concert halls and educational venues. Many of the greatest living players either live in the city or in close surrounding areas. The negatives are there, off course, but the musical pay backs are huge.
I've thought about it many times and am giving serious thought to giving it a shot.
A good musical reputation and some word of mouth can help, as can friends in the area.
Would I walk in there with some kind of "attitude"? Nope. Not on your life.

I've played in NYC many times over the years and love it. I gave living there a shot in 1979-80 when I was in my mid twenties, and brother, I had to give up. I played with some great players, did some nice gigs and was able to continue traveling with the band I was in at the time (based in Chicago), but I could tell that it was going to be a long road to get to the point of making a living from music there as I had been doing for a few years in Chicago. The logistics of dealing with bass and amp on public trans, parking my car, etc. were pretty tough after having things relatively easy in Chicago. Some memorable experiences:

Showing up at Roseland for a union sponsored gig search. A crowd of musicians looking for work, I think every Tuesday. I was standing next to Sal Nestico in his tux and thought, oh geez...

Taking the Lex Ave train from 69th? St. to 125th and walking over to 9th? Ave, I think, with my bass and amp, to play at the "Cotton Club" I'll never forget that walk.

Leaving a session downtown at 2AM or so and getting on the subway, looking around at the crowd, and getting off before the doors closed. I think I walked 40 blocks getting home that night.

Getting a call to play with drummer Billy Hart, oh yeah, I thought. I asked the leader how to get to the club in NJ - take my bass and amp on the subway to 186th?, grab a bus to wherever, they'd then pick me up and take me to the club. Gig payed $35 I think. I passed...

Ken, I think I may have met you at guitarist Ross Traut's loft on 27th St. I think maybe you had just started making basses. Sound familiar?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

Ken, I think I may have met you at guitarist Ross Traut's loft on 27th St. I think maybe you had just started making basses. Sound familiar?

?? Nope, no recall, sorry

I would like to add that the Economy is not limited to Jazz and Commercial Gigs. The Orchestra world has been suffering at least as much if not more.

For the most part, the better players get the better gigs, but not 100% of the time. One thing for sure is that there are more players than Jobs now.

Take for example the NY Phil. Over a 2 year period on two separate invites, about 350 people auditioned for a spot or two. The first was to replace Lew Norton when he retired and of the 200, no one got the gig. The second, about 150 I heard showed up. Zip again in the Hires and 1 or 2 more spots opened up between the first 200 and the next 150 tried out.

I know they are using Sub's whenever needed to fill out the section per concert/series. From a business standpoint the Sub's probably do not get all the benefits and frills that the regulars do so it's cheaper 'not' to hire anyone permanently. On the other hand, there are probably union minimums for the Orchestra per section. Using Sub's I would guess satisfies the minimums required. One auditionee that I know was offered to be on the sub list. He asked me on the phone if he should accept and I said "of course. Next time you audition there you will more comfortable and relaxed from playing there already." This person already has a Job in another Orchestra but is looking to move up, like many.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Charles Stark

From everything I've read (albeit I know virtually nothing about Jazz) it seems that life as a professional jazz musician can be incredibly difficult, especially in the beginning. Would you all assess my opinion as on mark? At least with classical bass there is the prospect of auditions and getting some form of tenured position, whereas with Jazz, it's all about reputation and couple bad gigs can break you...Please stop me if I'm incorrect. Tough life indeed.

Yes, life as a professional jazz musician can be difficult, especially these days with the decline of jazz as popular music. Most jazz people I know play other gigs, too. I always supplemented my jazz life with recording sessions, corporate and private parties as leader and sideman, teaching, and educational programs. Unfortunately, much of this work has also been on the decline over the last ten years or so. Many players are trying to get teaching gigs at the university level now to make up for the lack of playing opportunities.

I suggest reading Jason Heath's "Road Warrior" series on doublebassblog.org to get an idea of what classical musicians go through when they don't land that major symphony gig and have to freelance.

[Paul Warburton]

No surprise. You're back again, of course, right on target. Now you're accusing me of dissing your Country, which is more BS but you knew I had to come back again to make it clear to other members that it isn't true, so here ya go...... http://www.smithbassforums.com/showt...8270#post18270
My post #47......""study in neurosis NZ crapola thread of yours". (if you don't want to dig through the crap). As you wish, I'll explain that to you...I wasn't calling your country crapola, I was calling that sad thread that has NZ in the topic header crapola, and that, IMO, is really being kind to you.
Now you come into this new thread that I felt was incumbant on me to post to apologize to Anselm and to explain my actions to other members to make sure that people know that you're still haunting and ready to taunt. How many times have you threatened to leave before this?
I don't know if Ken HAS to CLOSE your account before you leave. I think not, and if I were him I'd say.....Bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass on yer way out.

[Ken Smith]

You know when someone says "hey, I can say this to you because I'm your friend".. etc.. Well that happens on line too. The difference here is that others around the world, members and guests alike can read it. On this small membered forum, the guest readership far out numbers the members.

We say what we say and we do what we do. When I tell jokes to others I am often the only one who gets the joke the way I thought it to be intended. You gotta be in it to win it!.. So, often Posts and Threads are between the posters ears rather than clearly understood by others.

I hope that makes sense. I get it. Do you?

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

You know when someone says "hey, I can say this to you because I'm your friend".. etc.. Well that happens on line too. The difference here is that others around the world, members and guests alike can read it. On this small membered forum, the guest readership far out numbers the members.
We say what we say and we do what we do. When I tell jokes to others I am often the only one who gets the joke the way I thought it to be intended. You gotta be in it to win it!.. So, often Posts and Threads are between the posters ears rather than clearly understood by others.

I hope that makes sense. I get it. Do you?

No.
What do I get? Do I have to get something? What if I don't like it?....can I take it back for something nicer, or do I have to be polite, keep it and act like I like it? Sometimes, when you're nice to me I think you might be planning on doing something ugly to me..................****. I'm starting to sound like Richard.