Upton Basses

[Ron Lacey]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

If your local guy does good set-ups, there is no guarantee he can do good restorations.

I've never had a bass restored but after reading about the work you've had done, I totally agree. It appears to take both the skill to do the physical work, which looks to be at least a level or two beyond basic setup work, and more importantly, a deep knowledge of the instrument to know what is appropriate to do and what is not.

My local guy may have been fine for setup but the fact that the shop where he works had mostly 1/2 size basses, and the two 3/4 size basses on hand were way overpriced, made me reluctant. They mostly cater to the local school band and orchestra programs. I sure wouldn't take him a restoration without seeing examples of his work. To be fair, I haven't asked him to do any work on my bass and based on his reputation I'd expect him to be up front about what he thinks he can or can't do.

I'd be interested in Arnold's and Jeff's take on how to evaluate a luthier before committing to one; either for setup or restoration. Getting recommendations via internet discussion groups seems to work only for big cities and even those are sometimes scarce.

Now -- that's off topic . Feel free to move some of this over to the Lutherie section since it's independent of the seller of the bass.

[Jeff Gellis]

I have had the opportunity to compare my Upton Hawkes Hybrid to my teacher's 200 year old German carved bass. I started studying with Bassist extraordinaire, Mike Richmond. He played both basses and this is what I heard. FWIW

ARCO
200 year old German Bass - Very mellow top end, there was no lack of top end but it was very easy on the ears. Scooped mid range. That is, has a quality to the mid range that colors the sound in pronounced way. I would describe it as a distinct and unique voice for a double bass. Tight and full lowend. This bass disperses it's sound in a way that surrounds you. You get directionality from the mids and highs but the low end surrounds you, if that makes any sense.

Dec. 2006 Upton Hawkes Hybrid - 20% louder than the fully carved vintage bass, top end was very pronounced. Not obnoxious but not mellow. Midrange and bottom were pretty well balanced but without a distinct complexity or distinct personality. It sounds like a very good bass but not one that you would instantly be able to identify as having a completely identifiable character. This bass disperses it's sound very directionally.

Pizz.
200 year old German Carved Bass - tons of growl- holy cow. Great warm bottom. Midrange uniqueness less prevalent in pizzicato playing.

Dec. 2006 Upton Hawkes Hybrid - once again, substantially louder. More punch in the low end. I assume that's a function of the loudness difference. Brighter than the German Bass.

Conclusion
In the hands of Mike Richmond, that carved German bass sounds rediculously good. The distinct and complex character of the sound make listening to it a joy.
The Upton sounded very good. I mean very good. Not complex but still very musical and pleasing.
I guess a Beaujolais Noveau vs a fine red at it's prime would be the best comparison I can come up with. Certainly, not junk by any account and I will be able to grow musically with this bass.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Jeff,
Very interesting comparison and similar to my experience as well.
My teacher has two basses.
One, a 19th century carved bass, probably German. My Hawkes is much louder and fuller sounding, although it lacks the deepest fundamental of the older bass.
The other is a 7/8 carved Rodier that Bob Branstetter played for many years, so it is tuned to perfection. Both basses are wearing Obligatos at the moment. The Hawkes is about equal in volume and has a similar tonality, but lacks in a couple of areas. First, the Rodier is quicker. It has a pronounced edge to the attack where my bass is quite a bit slower. Second, my bass lacks the complexity of tone of the older and much more expensive bass. That said, In the few times I've been able to compare side by side, the Hawkes holds its own quite well.

One of these days or months I'll leave it with Bob for a few days to see what he can do to improve it, but I'm in no hurry. For a new bass it feels and sounds pretty darn good, especially for the price.

[Jeff Gellis]

Greg,
In my opinion, my bass got a lot better sounding after luthier Bill Merchant, got his hands on it. He moved the bridge a bite, he moved the sound post forward (towards the neck) approximately 1/2 inch. The bass came alive. This stuff is so subjective but my bass definatly sounded better than the way it came from the Upton Shop. I think your bass might benefit from having Bob do his thing too.

[Michael Case]

I don't wanna come off the wrong way, but I need to ask this question for my own satisfaction. If Upton has these basses built in a factory in Romania and all they do is varnish, add fingerboard, bridge, soundpost, end-pin, and set-up. What makes these basses so different than any other factory bass (hybrid or carved) in the same price range set-up by the luthier of your choice.

I'd like to know because I'm sort of considering a Professor bass or saving a bit more scratch and getting a NS LaScala Hybrid or carved if possible.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Michael Case

I don't wanna come off the wrong way, but I need to ask this question for my own satisfaction. If Upton has these basses built in a factory in Romania and all they do is varnish, add fingerboard, bridge, soundpost, end-pin, and set-up. What makes these basses so different than any other factory bass (hybrid or carved) in the same price range set-up by the luthier of your choice.

I'd like to know because I'm sort of considering a Professor bass or saving a bit more scratch and getting a NS LaScala Hybrid or carved if possible.

"What makes these basses so different"?.. 'Nothing' really! These Basses I believe come from the Gliga workshop. Eroy used to work for JR Music who makes and sells the Calin Wultur line of string instruments. After moving to Upton, he brought his contacts with him from what I understand. JR offers this same Bass in both Hybrid and Plywood with two 'finish' choices. One is lacquer from Gliga and the other is Varnish from Wultur which is an upgrade.

I bought 6 Basses from JR and sold most of them already. I just ordered a basic ply and a hybrid upgraded. I am the only shop near Philly so I have to have Basses in all ranges. Having just high end doesn't get the job done if you are going to service the area with Basses for sale.

Not to advertise above but pointing out my 'first hand' experience is more believable than just theory. The NS Basses from AES (Arnold and Wil) are completely different. These are from Basses made in good shop Germany with the Necks shipped separate. Arnold's shop sets and fits the neck for proper angle and neck stand as well as carves the heel and neck stop to order. Upton doesn't put the neck in as you can see from the link above on Upton.

What would I prefer if asked? Well, Upton has good to great lengths to try and corner this market flooding TalkBass with Ads and even threads and postings to back up their claims. I call it the TalkUpton website because I had trouble over there trying to discuss anything else without moderator interference to protect their 'income' from Upton. SO.. I would go with the JR for the lower price point or a Shen and then the New Standard Basses for the 'elite' type plywood, hybrid or even fully carved. I see no difference in a fullly carved Cleveland or La Scala model and lets say a Wilfer or Stoll Bass Grade or quality wise. The difference is that you get one of the top Restoration shops in the country doing the same neck set work as any member of the NY Philarmonic, Met Opera orch, NYC Ballet Orch, National Symphony, Boston Sym, etc as I have seen many old classic Basses in Arnolds shop getting work done. It's nice to know the 'elite' goes there as well as the beginner and intermediate players including all styles of playing. This is not something you will find at Upton otherwise it would be all over his website in his repair section as he does not get this clientele on a regular basis from what I have heard.

Choices are then Shen or JR in the 2k range and NS in the 4k and up. Deal with the best shop you can find. How can you tell which is the best shop? Ask the Bass section in your local Symphony who they trust their English, Italian and French Orchestra Basses with the most if price was no object.

An Upton Bass is a Gliga Bass without the Varnish, Fingerboard and with LaFaro copy FF holes which in my opinion is NOT a Prescott Bass. The name Hawkes and Professor are 'borrowed' from the English firm that contracted Basses mainly in Germany called 'Hawkes Panormo' in 3 grades being the Concert, Professor and Hawkes. The Hawkes is reported to be made in England but this is not 100% proven. Also, Basses were made in France under the name 'Riviere and Hawkes' which mainly look like a French Jacquet Bass. I was offered a Bass for sale once that looked to be a 'Paul Claudot Bass' but passed on it. Later it was sold and opened up only to discover it had and inscription inside the table marked 'Riviere and Hawkes'. Look at my Links just above and see how these two could be easily confused.

The higher shouldered JR Basses from Gliga are called a Panormo model as that's exactly what they copied to make the Hawkes over 100 years ago in England. I like original names and if you are going to copy something at least give credit where it's due. The Professor model was a lower grade than the Hawkes model made about 100 years ago. Upton is now reversing these two putting the Professor name in 'lights' as if it's some improvement.

[Michael Case]

I already have a Czech factory bass (hybrid Strunal). I've had the fingerboard, bridge, tailgut, replaced at Gage. So basically I have a bass similar to an Upton? I love the sound of my bass and don't feel a real need to make a sideways move. I think I'm going to take a trip to Gage, 30 minutes by subway instead of 2 or more hours to Connecticut, during the week (SPRING BREAK!) and look at some basses in the $5,000 range. Then I'm going to see if Arnold has a NS in stock that I can check out and take a drive to his place.

[Jeff Gellis]

Two years since I started this post. A lot has changed. Still studying, playing at a much higher level, I have heard many, many other bassists and basses since the original post. Here is my new review of the Upton Hybrid bass I have had since January 2007.

This bass gets better sounding all the time. Both classical players and Jazz players have had great things to say about both the pizz and arco sound of my bass. It bows well, sounds present and even and sings throughout the entire range of the bass. It lost it's overly bright edge it had when it was new but remains present and warm. It is easy to hear when playing in a section as the whole bass resonates making pitch easy to hear/feel. Action is on the lower side of normal yet it still bows well. Pizzacoto is punchy and aggressive, great for grooving and walking. Its produces very loud and clear fundamentals.

As many have pointed out, there are other basses in this price point. I will tell you that mine is a winner. It gets noticed sonically and it keeps getting better. I have no affiliation with the manufacturer, this is 100% straight and honest take on a bass which I now have some history with, am getting to really know and love.