"Flexocor strings info from Ken Smith" (from TB, 2005)

[Thomas Erickson]

Ok I remeasured a few more times; averaged out the G is .053 and the D .063. Final answer. These have the dark blue-purple silk on bottom, while up top they are the same but with the twist of silver wire. The last half of the D is red silk with the silver.

Pirastro really should post online a comprehensive chart showing all the different incarnations of their strings over the years - seems like nobody can keep this stuff straight. I'm probably the worst.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

Ok I remeasured a few more times; averaged out the G is .053 and the D .063. Final answer. These have the dark blue-purple silk on bottom, while up top they are the same but with the twist of silver wire. The last half of the D is red silk with the silver.

Pirastro really should post online a comprehensive chart showing all the different incarnations of their strings over the years - seems like nobody can keep this stuff straight. I'm probably the worst.

I have spoken with them and with someone here. Two conflicting stories. The NY guy tells me they were made here in USA and excess shipped back to Germany. The USA supplied strings made in USA. Pirastro denies that but my source knew the guy and company.

I have sent strings back to Pirastro in the past and they flat out deny what I have been told. They are very secretive about how things are made. For awhile, some believed that the current orig flex blue and the Original flatchrome white/blue were the exact same string. Pirastro sent me one of each and they are totally different in every way.

If they always made them in Germany, then why did they have to make the flex 92s and the orig flex all over again? They loose the recipe? Or, when the USA guy retired and closed up shop, he kept his info and just walked away?

So, regardless of what was, we have to deal in present time what is..

[Emanuele Carbone]

Hello,

I have a new "Stanzani" Italian double bass (105 cm, 3/4ish, flat-back) which is still "fresh" and quite on the bright side, tone-wise.

I bought it some months ago with a set of Flexocor (92's, the ruby wire ones) which I truly believe are "regular", quite a tested standard for bowing.

Well, compared to other basses around (which I have to say are old, or at least older and broken in - none of them has Flex mounted) my bass tends to have a fairly pronounced midrangy and ringing sound, full of those harmonics which remind me of a brass instrument, if you know what I mean. They project very well on upper solo registers, but the bass's sound is fairly thinner than those I have compared it with and tends to get scratchy, hollow and nasal during fast orchestra passages, at least from my point of listening, the player's one. Therefore, I find these strings a bit unforgiving: every minor bowing flaw seems to get through.

Now I'm starting to fancy a fairly punchier and bassier sound, with some more fundamental presence on this bass. Just to make a comparison with electric basses, which I hope won't sound stupid, it's as if I had a Fender Jazz and were looking for a timbre which is a bit more "MusicMan-ish"... and I love Fender Jazz basses, by the way!
The comparison could also be appropriate when talking about orchestra/small ensembe situations: there are times when it cuts through well, mostly during melodic passages, but overally I feel like the tone's a bit hollow within the "group".

What I'd like to know is:

- is that feeling quite common with these strings on new bright basses? Otherwise, are they a good way to judge whether a bass is a good-sounding one or not? I obviously hope that the earlier case is truer... I have to say that I tried to put a low E from a set of solo Flat-Chromesteel (white/blue wire) and it seems to sound creamier and fuller than the Flex E... even if it was meant to be tuned one tone higher! Unfortunately, the 3rd Flat-Cr. string tuned to A doesn't really work well instead.

- What would you suggest me as next replacement? I was thinking of Evah, or Obligato... would you throw in another option? I would avoid Belcanto because I'm afraid I'd still end up having a fairly nasal tone.

- According to my experience on this bass, I'd say that the Flexocor are a bit more suited for solo melodic playing rather than earthy orchestra passages. Is it true even if they are the choice for many orchestral players? Are they a good orchestral choice just for old or very dark basses?

Thank you in advance, thanks to Ken as well for this useful forum and to all its contributors!

[Ken Smith]

On your question for a more compatible string than the Flexocor lets look at a few points mentioned.

>>> Your bass is a fairly new modern bass and is life times away from being mellowed like an old Italian, that is a fact.

>>> The Flexocors sound rough and/or bright with some fast orchestra passages, correct?

I have experienced all of this so I know exactly how you feel, I think.

This thread above was done many years ago and since then, new strings have come out. On the Ogligato's and Evah's, you will encounter other problems in Orchestra bowing, different than the Flexocor so don't go that route.

I suggest the NEW Passione strings, new formula for your modern bass that will tame your roughness away. Get the regular gauge if you want them to be similar thickness to the the Flex.92s or, for a little more meat to dig into, I suggest the Stark gauge which I consider to be Medium gauge feel and the regular ones to be a light/weich gauge. Regular Flex.92s are lighter than most other orchestra strings as well.

New model Passione Starks. They play as good a Flexocors and smoother then Belcantos.

Every bass has its 'sweet spot' string wise. You just have to find yours and save from buying everything out there in the process.

[Emanuele Carbone]

Hi, I'm back to this topic since that set of orchestral Flexocor I was talking about in my previous post which sounds a bit dead to me (especially the A string) on my bass, recently surprised me when I tried to tune it one tone up for solo tuning: it comes to life! the 3rd string, from having no body and punch, comes alive and gets plenty of power as a B, the tension is tauter but fine for me... tuning it back to EADG makes it floppy and as I said before the 3rd string and particularly its open A doesn't seem to speak well, from what I hear when playing. Playing that A on the 4th string (eg: 4th finger in 1st and half position) doesn't help that much. Raising the bridge action doesn't help much as well.
If I tune them up to F#BEA (solo) and play that A on the 4th string (eg: 4th finger in half position, what you read as G but plays as A), the bass and the same note sounds way more convincing.

I know that you'd rather have the instrument in front of you, but basing on this feedback, would you say it's more likely to be the instrument itself having an issue with certain notes/frequencies or more simply (and hopefully) a quite unfortunate mismatch of string model and bass, which doesn't work as a combination for orchestra tuning and changing them in favour of a tauter, heavier set might do the trick?

The color code of the strings suggest they definitely are an orchestra setting, but they feel and sound better as solo

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Emanuele Carbone

Hi, I'm back to this topic since that set of orchestral Flexocor I was talking about in my previous post which sounds a bit dead to me (especially the A string) on my bass, recently surprised me when I tried to tune it one tone up for solo tuning: it comes to life! the 3rd string, from having no body and punch, comes alive and gets plenty of power as a B, the tension is tauter but fine for me... tuning it back to EADG makes it floppy and as I said before the 3rd string and particularly its open A doesn't seem to speak well, from what I hear when playing. Playing that A on the 4th string (eg: 4th finger in 1st and half position) doesn't help that much. Raising the bridge action doesn't help much as well.
If I tune them up to F#BEA (solo) and play that A on the 4th string (eg: 4th finger in half position, what you read as G but plays as A), the bass and the same note sounds way more convincing.

I know that you'd rather have the instrument in front of you, but basing on this feedback, would you say it's more likely to be the instrument itself having an issue with certain notes/frequencies or more simply (and hopefully) a quite unfortunate mismatch of string model and bass, which doesn't work as a combination for orchestra tuning and changing them in favour of a tauter, heavier set might do the trick?

The color code of the strings suggest they definitely are an orchestra setting, but they feel and sound better as solo

It's funny that you just posted on this because it was just today that I was talking strings with Arnold Schnitzer and at the ISB earlier this month while changing strings on some of his basses there he found the Flex 92s to work best on some basses. I asked him today because I was looking for a new string for one of my basses and wanted some suggestions. I took a set of 92s off a bass that had been there for 14 years and put it on the the bass I was trying to improve and they worked fine. In those 14 years however that other bass had barely been played, a 4/4 JB Allen that was restored in 1999. Being too big for most, it rarely gets tried out in the shop and has only been out on trial a few times in that period. So, under tension for 14 years but played maybe a month or two worth of regular hours in that time

On your bass, it might have a loose tension from many things, TP length/angle, Neck Set, thickness of neck and FB, bridge height, bassbar, top thickness, etc.. All these things can affect a bass's tension and some basses just work better with different string types and gauges.

I would suggest (if you like the 92s) to try the Stark gauge. They are only slightly thicker but have greater tension and a thicker and darker tone. Basses with lighter strength bellies (tops) would benefit from lighter strings.

So, try the Stark 92s if you liked your result tuning up with the regular gauge.

[Emanuele Carbone]

Thanks for your reply.

I wouldn't say my bass suffers from a bit more tension (in fact it proved the contrary), the top has a good curvature, it's not sunk at all, and though not overly thick it's not at all like one of those instruments which look like they would crack just by looking at them. It's like one of those new "9mm/1cm instruments" in their thickest top spot, if you know what I mean.

What leaves me a bit dubious is that they chose to add some sort of "side braces" on the inner parts of the ribs (parallel to the soundpost, I mean), I'd say two for each side on the bottom part and one over the C bout, if I'm not wrong.. they'd surely prevent the sides from warping, is that extra wood really necessary, though?

BTW, I'd personally go for a mellower, deeper and more robust kind of string than the Flex 92s the next time (they weren't my choice on that bass), a model you'd associate with "the orchestra sound", also because that bass is very young and rather bright for now.

That set of Flex sounds quite evenly when tuned up as solo, when tuned normally my feedback would be, from top to bottom and referring to my standpoint while playing:

G - A bit harsh at times, especially the open note. Acceptable, anyway

D - Quite warm and resonating, light-gauge feeling. The best sounding string

A - The worst. Thin, little body which "starts" later than the attack and anyway still sounds nasal to me, gets very scratchy especially in fast passages

E - Quite full sounding and resonating, way better than the A string... still a bit floppy and light-gauge in terms of feeling... we're talking of Flexs anyway!


So it seems that strings tend to sound better alternately (D and E), with the worst one being by far the A and the G being a bit harsh at times.

Recently, during an orchestral rehearsal, I asked another bassist to listen to my open strings some 6-7ish meters away. She said she heard them way more evenly sounding and less problematic than what I feel and fear. Still, they were long, open notes and I don't really like the response I get when I play at all when it comes to the A string.