Would you change a Smith?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Steve_M

FWIW, I have two stingrays. One with through body stringing and one without and I'd challenge anyone to tell the difference with all other things being equal.

If that is a true statement (i.e. there is no difference), then what purpose would a thru-body serve?

I mean, "yes Mr. Bass Builder, I'd like to order that 5-String and yes, I would prefer to have the extra holes cut into the body because it looks cool and I love bending the strings 90 degrees at the bridge too".

[Ronson Hall]

Originally Posted by Tim Bishop

If that is a true statement (i.e. there is no difference), then what purpose would a thru-body serve?

I mean, "yes Mr. Bass Builder, I'd like to order that 5-String and yes, I would prefer to have the extra holes cut into the body because it looks cool and I love bending the strings 90 degrees at the bridge too".

I think that's what Steve's getting at, Tim. If there's "no difference" sonically that comes from bending the strings 90 degrees at the bridge, then why insist on doing it?

[Steve_M]

I think the theory was that through body stringing was supposed to add sustain to a vibrating string by anchoring it in a heavy mass.

However, because the string doesn't actually vibrate between the break point over the saddle and the anchor, the method of anchoring (so long as its fit for purpose) doesn't have much of a tonal impact.

Its my understanding that how much mass the saddles have and the method by which the saddles are acoustically coupled (ie. in firm contact) with the bridge plate is much more important than anchoring. I guess the idea is to have a rigid structure (ie neck) and rigid, solid anchoring at the break points at either end of a string so that the vibrations of the string are mostly isolated.

Can Ken confirm I'm on the right track?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Steve_M

I think the theory was that through body stringing was supposed to add sustain to a vibrating string by anchoring it in a heavy mass.

However, because the string doesn't actually vibrate between the break point over the saddle and the anchor, the method of anchoring (so long as its fit for purpose) doesn't have much of a tonal impact.

Its my understanding that how much mass the saddles have and the method by which the saddles are acoustically coupled (ie. in firm contact) with the bridge plate is much more important than anchoring. I guess the idea is to have a rigid structure (ie neck) and rigid, solid anchoring at the break points at either end of a string so that the vibrations of the string are mostly isolated.

Can Ken confirm I'm on the right track?

What you are saying above is correct. Hope you didn't take my response the wrong way. Just wanted to add my 2-cents worth!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Steve_M

I think the theory was that through body stringing was supposed to add sustain to a vibrating string by anchoring it in a heavy mass.

However, because the string doesn't actually vibrate between the break point over the saddle and the anchor, the method of anchoring (so long as its fit for purpose) doesn't have much of a tonal impact.

Its my understanding that how much mass the saddles have and the method by which the saddles are acoustically coupled (ie. in firm contact) with the bridge plate is much more important than anchoring. I guess the idea is to have a rigid structure (ie neck) and rigid, solid anchoring at the break points at either end of a string so that the vibrations of the string are mostly isolated.

Can Ken confirm I'm on the right track?

Hey, if I keep reading this stuff I might mess up what took me 30 years to get done..

Actually, most Basses with 3 feet of Paint as a finish needs all the help it can get to vibrate the wood buried down under somewhere. Stringing thru the body was thought by some to make the wood vibrate more. If our Bass or any other vibrates too much, the sound would be like 'mush' without definition. Think of all those old P Basses used in the 60s with ZERO sustain that sounded so good on recordings. Are we playing whole notes held out for 5 minutes at a time between notes? How much vibration do we need?

Hit a note on any Bass you have and grab the headstock. Then feel the back below the bridge. You will see that even if it's made or Rock, it will vibrate to some degree. Even a half assed bass has vibration throughout. It's just, what are you vibrating?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Hey, if I keep reading this stuff I might mess up what took me 30 years to get done..

Actually, most Basses with 3 feet of Paint as a finish needs all the help it can get to vibrate the wood buried down under somewhere. Stringing thru the body was thought by some to make the wood vibrate more. If our Bass or any other vibrates too much, the sound would be like 'mush' without definition. Think of all those old P Basses used in the 60s with ZERO sustain that sounded so good on recordings. Are we playing whole notes held out for 5 minutes at a time between notes? How much vibration do we need?

Hit a note on any Bass you have and grab the headstock. Then feel the back below the bridge. You will see that even if it's made or Rock, it will vibrate to some degree. Even a half assed bass has vibration throughout. It's just, what are you vibrating?

Please stop reading then, we don't want you to get messed up.

Interesting Ken. This is good stuff. Great ****ogy on the "old P Basses" and everything following.

[Steve_M]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Stringing thru the body was thought by some to make the wood vibrate more.

So I was walking on the right path but just in the wrong direction?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Steve_M

So I was walking on the right path but just in the wrong direction?

Steve, the main thing is that we realize we are never too old or to smart to learn.

[Steve_M]

Indeed.

We're lucky on bassworld.co.uk in having a forum specifically set up for budding luthiers. I tried a bass at our Bassworld Bash last weekend that was built by one of our contributors. I wasn't keen on the body shape but I was blown away by the sound - especially considering that the guy had built it in his garage.

The neck was a combination of flamed maple and had two stringers of wenge running down either side with graphite reinforcement. It sounded crisp, warm, deep and growly. I was wondering if Ken's every experimented with wenge in the neck of a prototype Smith?

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Ronson Hall

I think that's what Steve's getting at, Tim. If there's "no difference" sonically that comes from bending the strings 90 degrees at the bridge, then why insist on doing it?

I suspected that was what Steve was getting at, I just wanted to add my spin and a little more punch, I guess.

[Ronson Hall]

Originally Posted by Tim Bishop

I suspected that was what Steve was getting at, I just wanted to add my spin and a little more punch, I guess.

Duly noted, Tim!

[Tim Bishop]

Originally Posted by Ronson Hall

Duly noted, Tim!

I need to remember to respond carefully. Too much ambiguity in the eThread world.