French Bass full restoration

[Steve Alcott]

Thanks for the continuing updates on this project. I for one find it extremely interesting and informative. I've been around basses for 40+ years and have glued the odd seam, run some glue into a crack, filed nut and bridge slots-the sort of thing any bass owner should be able to do. A major restoration like this is a lesson in patience, planning, and most of all, attention to the smallest details. I eagerly await the next installment in the saga.

[Matthew Tucker]

Very small update to complete the picture - here's another shot of the original block with the grain lines highlighted. You can clearly see how it cracked, and why choice of the right wood for even the humble internal blocks is important for the longevity of a bass!

[Ken Smith]

Matt, I would like to point out that I have seen a few Basses with 2 piece blocks across the width as well as Laminated Blocks in the depth. Also, a few of my Basses that were restored had an added piece laminated for the depth to either deepen the neck set and strengthen the bottom of the block or due to the block being cut from the top to shorten the bass.

My Hart had it's original Blocks inside it when it was opened up. The upper and lower blocks were two pieced Pine. It seems that this was either done due to a shortage of materials or perhaps a method for stability. We will never know the actual 'why' these things were done in the past but if they survived 180 years, I think they got it right.

In the case of this French Bass you are working on which looks to be a Mirecourt production rather then a makers individual single made bass, Blocks and other materials were used as they were supplied to the workers. I would assume that if the part was bad in the beginning, it would be tossed and not used but foresight in which what might survive the future or not was not a decision of a single worker.

Also, from the looks of the condition of this bass being left alone for so long, dryness and stress combined can easily split any wide straight grained piece of wood like this Block. It can also split from the other pieces of wood glued to it as the weakest link is what usually gives. So, if you think this Bass needs some extra strength in the block material itself, two pieces glued of slightly different grain might help. Just my 2 cents, or 3 or 4..

Keep up the good work. I bet you can't wait for the next big job to walk into your shop huh?..lol

[Matthew Tucker]

Well funny you should say that. Here's the new block all glued up



grain runs laterally across the bottom and vertically around the mortise. I'm still not 100% sure I'll use this one though. have to cogitate a bit.

The next big job, I hope, is a new bass from scratch based on a Lott Sr pattern

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Well funny you should say that. Here's the new block all glued up



grain runs laterally across the bottom and vertically around the mortise. I'm still not 100% sure I'll use this one though. have to cogitate a bit.

The next big job, I hope, is a new bass from scratch based on a Lott Sr pattern

Well, I have played a Lott a few years back as it was left with me for a possible trade. Despite the severely restored condition (mainly the top) and having a later replaced scroll, I was sorry to see it go back to the owner. It was a sweet bass.

On the new Block, I can't see the grain of the upper piece but looks like it will do the Job, I would yeild the remainder of my time on this to Arnold who has seen more Blocks than I played with as a child..

Hey, on Lott Snr. there was new information published about him back in 1998. J.Lott Snr. was actually his father who was not a Luthier. J.F. Lott the Luthier was actually born in London (1776) and not in Germany as previously believed. Mis-information like this happens when the records searched come up with 2 people of the same name.The same thing happened with John Hart whose father of the same name was a Gunsmith and the Luther was erroneously thought to have opened a Gun Shop which was actually the Father who did. The son, John Thomas Hart, founder of Hart & Sons was given space in his Fathers shop a few years after the death of his master Samuel Gilkes. That is one of the published errors I believe due to father and son having the same name like with Lott who also had a son of the exact same name (b.1805) but thankfully with 3 John Lott's they called him Jack as a nick name, thankfully.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Hey, on Lott Snr. there was new information published about him back in 1998. J.Lott Snr. was actually his father who was not a Luthier. J.F. Lott the Luthier was actually born in London (1776) and not in Germany as previously believed. Mis-information like this happens when the records searched come up with 2 people of the same name.

According to the guys at contrabass.co.uk John Lott I born 1776 met BS Fendt 1 and got a job in Dodd's shop making cellos and basses. So according to that account the Senior WAS a luthier.

Hi son John (jack) Lott II (b 1814) was the colourful character who was also a luthier who learnt his stuff from his father, then later in Richard Davis's shop, and then later went on to be elephant trainer and rascal, and then luthier again expert with a reputation as expert copyist. I read a great anecdote where J Lott II made two violins, "dirtied them up" a little, put them in a couple of old cases and sold them at market for 60 pounds each. This really pissed his father off, who hated the false antiquing tricks, so he (J Lott I) made two beautiful new violins, took them to the same market ... and couldn't sell them. Thus began the parting of their ways ...

Thomas Martin's article says that John Lott II worked in Dodd & Metzler's shop on an outwork basis. It appears that both father and son worked in the same Shop.

In the end it doesn't really matter though for me who designed the "Lott" bass I wat to build. It has lovely proportions and those big blunt-ended corner blocks.

[Amund Lie]

Just want to thank you for this thread. It really inspires me to see and read all of this. Excellent work!

Greetings from Norway.

-Amund

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

According to the guys at contrabass.co.uk John Lott I born 1776 met BS Fendt 1 and got a job in Dodd's shop making cellos and basses. So according to that account the Senior WAS a luthier.

Hi son John (jack) Lott II (b 1814) was the colourful character who was also a luthier who learnt his stuff from his father, then later in Richard Davis's shop, and then later went on to be elephant trainer and rascal, and then luthier again expert with a reputation as expert copyist. I read a great anecdote where J Lott II made two violins, "dirtied them up" a little, put them in a couple of old cases and sold them at market for 60 pounds each. This really pissed his father off, who hated the false antiquing tricks, so he (J Lott I) made two beautiful new violins, took them to the same market ... and couldn't sell them. Thus began the parting of their ways ...

Thomas Martin's article says that John Lott II worked in Dodd & Metzler's shop on an outwork basis. It appears that both father and son worked in the same Shop.

In the end it doesn't really matter though for me who designed the "Lott" bass I wat to build. It has lovely proportions and those big blunt-ended corner blocks.

Ok, you have been reading a bit, That's a good thing, First off, the blunt/squared corners are all basses made by Lott snr. (b.1776 in London) but were actually made for the shop of Thomas Dodd and are known as Dodd Basses made by Lott, if you wanna break it down. Yes, Bernhard Fendt Srn. trained him in the Dodd shop.

I just replied to you on the Lott thread as well. See what's there as it's on topic about Lott.

Once again, there are actually 3/three John Lott's. The eldest married in London in 1775, not a Luthier and possibly (POSSIBLY) came from Germany and was a furniture/cabinet/chair makers or whatever. @nd was the son born J.F. Lott in 1776 and then 3rd, HIS son J'F' Lott Jnr. aka Jack Lott. On the Snr./Jnr. thing if anyone cares, the same thing happened with William Forster. The first Maker in London was William II but was known as Old Forster. His father, also William Forster was a Violin maker in Brampton and never worked in London. William Forster III was called Young Forster and employed Samuel Gilkes. Young F' had two sons, William IV (no other title) and the youngest was Simon Andrew who was trained by IV and Gilkes according to even S.A himself in his own book written decades later.

So, this Snr, Jnr type stuff gets confusing BUT, it's good to know what you are actually making a copy of especially is that person did not make basses by trade. Sorry for the rant..
\Oh, and the British refer to J.F. Lott the bass maker from Dodd as 'Grandfather Lott' to make it even more confusing. Perhaps he was to some the Grandfather of the flat back Maggini style/model London bass, maybe. Panormo made them with roundbacks so that's the main difference besides doing it there 10 years before Lott ever touched a bass.

[Matthew Tucker]

Wayne - I'm not criticising anyone - who am I to know why something was done all those years ago!

The triangular block at the bottom is a bit of pine spot-glued on for clamping. I'll split it off when the ribs are clamped up.

Ken, If John Lott the luthier had a son called John, then there would be TWO John Lott Seniors in the mix! There sure are a Lott of them

[Adrian Levi]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Matt, I would like to point out that I have seen a few Basses with 2 piece blocks across the width as well as Laminated Blocks in the depth. Also, a few of my Basses that were restored had an added piece laminated for the depth to either deepen the neck set and strengthen the bottom of the block or due to the block being cut from the top to shorten the bass.

My Hart had it's original Blocks inside it when it was opened up. The upper and lower blocks were two pieced Pine. It seems that this was either done due to a shortage of materials or perhaps a method for stability. We will never know the actual 'why' these things were done in the past but if they survived 180 years, I think they got it right.

In the case of this French Bass you are working on which looks to be a Mirecourt production rather then a makers individual single made bass, Blocks and other materials were used as they were supplied to the workers. I would assume that if the part was bad in the beginning, it would be tossed and not used but foresight in which what might survive the future or not was not a decision of a single worker.

Also, from the looks of the condition of this bass being left alone for so long, dryness and stress combined can easily split any wide straight grained piece of wood like this Block. It can also split from the other pieces of wood glued to it as the weakest link is what usually gives. So, if you think this Bass needs some extra strength in the block material itself, two pieces glued of slightly different grain might help. Just my 2 cents, or 3 or 4..

Keep up the good work. I bet you can't wait for the next big job to walk into your shop huh?..lol

2 x French basses with 2 piece neck blocks / the only other French bass I know also has the same , I thought that may be standard with older French instruments !

[Matthew Tucker]

Here we go again.

Remember the scroll badly glued with lashings of PVA?



Well I had to break the "repair" open. Very carefully.



Its very hot and humid here in Sydney and not a good time to be gluing neck blocks so I'm going to clean out all the PVA.

Here's my workshop for the afternoon:



The equipment



The PVA mess







VERY fiddly job. Steam, vinegar, stiff brush, pick pick pick with sharp knife and tweezers and a LOT of patience. More like dentistry than luthiery. All done with a 10x magnifying visor, too.



Scroll side cleaned up

[Matthew Tucker]

In this very odd photo of my leg and thumb, on the back of the scroll you can see a fracture where the pegbox is almost breaking through.



More rubbery goo.



Before and after.



Much better.

A bit daunting to think that this all has to glue back together and be strong enough for a neck graft later.

You wouldn't think it, but probably an hour and a half's work all up :-(

The only mishap was when I took a swig of old vinegar instead of my glass of ouzo and ice.



In all this closeup work I've had a good look at this head. VERY long, nicely cut, blackened chamfers, and I think it's beech, not maple.

[Eric Hochberg]

Question, will the neck graft become the main structure of the broken up scroll now? It seems amazing that this thing would stay together.