"Cornerless Italian & Spanish Basses"

[Ken Smith]

I don't remember seeing this Bass posted but I just found it on line (Vito Liuzzi's site), Pedro Valls;


I am not 100% certain but I think this is a Spanish Bass.

In searching on the 'net I read this eye opening paragraph;
"In Spain, two new fretted string instruments related to the lute emerged in late medieval times and spread around the Western world. These were the vihuela (Spanish guitar) and the viol. Our modern, classical guitar is a direct descendant of the vihuela. Because it was plucked it was often called vihuela de mano (hand guitar). Related to it was a Spanish instrument called the vihuela de arco (bowed guitar), better known as the viol. The viol was developed in Spain in the late 1400s. It had six strings and was fretted and tuned like the lute and vihuela, but it was bowed, not plucked. It came in different sizes and was played with the instrument resting on the lap and legs. It is often called by its Italian name viola da gamba (leg viol). Having entered Italy from Spain, it quickly spread from there throughout Western Europe."

From; "The Invention of the Violin and the Spanish Guitar"

It seems from this article that the Guitar Shaped Viol came from Spain originally and not Italy. Not counting politics but rather the intermingling of makers training in Italy from Spain it's easy to see how the two styles would merge into almost one. The Italians borrowing from Spain and the Spanish making Italian Violins. J.B. Guillami and Juan (Johannes) Guillami are reported to have trained in Italy. Juan II's instruments looking the same as the fathers but the father reportedly a better maker. Both are famed for their Double Basses, rare, sought after and valuable. J.B. Guillami is referenced in one of my books but the main book on Spanish makers by Ramon Pinto sells from $250-450 and I don't have one. I do know where one is so next time I am there, I will try to spend a few minutes looking up the family of Guillami. I emailed Pinto a few times about my Bass and he never replied.

Is my Bass possibly by Guillami? If so, it's by J.B. or Juan I (possibly the son of J.B.) as Juan II is too late in time to be associated with this bass from the looks of its age. The Pinto book does not mention J.B. but the earlier Henley book does (not Jalovec!). Also, it's mentioned that J.B. trained in Cremona and dated his instruments as if made there. It could be possible that J.B. IS actually Juan/Johannes and just anti-dated some of his instruments upon returning from Italy, possibly Turin or Naples. It is not uncommon to see makers anti-dating their work or place of making for profit or whatever. It is also possible that for some reason, his name was left out of the book as no single book is perfect. If Pinto believed J.B.'s labels as being an Italian maker, then he may have left him out of the Spanish listings. The Spanish school being of less importance than other parts of Europe may also be to blame for the lack of research we see as compared to other schools of making.

In reading the elder dated J.B. as compared to Juan I, the description of work of J.B. fits more along the lines of my Bass as his Violins (I think) are described as having fine wood and wide purfling as well as a similar varnish color to my bass. This could fit a thousand other makers but between these two, I go with the earlier by description.

Compare this on line copied from Henley as compared to the Link from the Pinto book;
"GUILLAMI, JUAN (1)
Worked at Barcelona, 1720-1765. Pretty outline based on Stradivarian principles - sometimes reminiscent of a Gagliano. Arching of medium height. General style quite of Italian traits which he had imbued during several years’ sojourn in that country. Said to have been A pupil of Guadagnini. Had no plastic mind to control his somewhat erratic portrayal of a scroll, this being altogether of weak conception, thickly built but of narrow proportions. Ridges of volute marked with Indian ink. Ribs rather deep. Measurements: Body length, 35-1/2 cm.; upper bouts, 16.7; middle, 10.8; lower, 20.7. Belly wood always of close and strong fibre. Reddish shade of oil varnish, but not particularly supple.
’Cellos of fair Stradivarian design, well-calculated arching, and golden red varnish. Also several much sought for double-basses.
-----------------------------
Joannes Guillami me
fecit en Bar: anno 1760
-----------------------------
--------------------------------
Joannes Guillami me fecit
en Barcelona 1742
--------------------------------
Branded near sound-post. £450, 1959.

GUILLAMI, JUAN (2)
Son of the preceding. Worked at Barcelona, 1767. Died 1820. Similar style to that of father, but a defined line of demarcation rests between the workmanship, wood, and varnish. Wood often carelessly chosen, particularly that for the tops. Varnish rather brittle and chippy.
Also ’cellos and double-basses. £300, 1959.
---------------------------------------
Joannes Guillami
filius fecit Barcinone anno 1768"

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Had no plastic mind to control his somewhat erratic portrayal of a scroll ...

so THAT's what I need

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

so THAT's what I need

Hey, I am just posting the Link. By the way, if you have the Henley Book or follow that Link site changing the URL letter code alphabetically, you can read much of what's in Henley but not all the makers listed. Very interesting reading regardless of the accuracy of the information.

Note: JB Guillami is listed in Henley but the edited book on line does not list him.

http://www.ricercare.com/research/library/dictionary/g_contents.html

s_ or a or g or whatever letter you like. I am surprised that site does not credit their source. After reading a few of the makers, I looked them up in Henley and found it's a copy!

[Matthew Tucker]

Only crappy pics to compare with, but FWIW I think the outline, ff placement and neck block of the bass shown above are very similar to the cornerless bass on page 116 of Elgar's book.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Only crappy pics to compare with, but FWIW I think the outline, ff placement and neck block of the bass shown above are very similar to the cornerless bass on page 116 of Elgar's book.

Yes, similar not so curvy outline as with my bass as well as others I have seen that we think are Italian but who knows. I was informed some time ago that the bass on page 116 is NOT a Storioni but that's what it's called in that book.

The basses with less curve have more long continuous grains of wood in the top and back plates having wider center bouts which contributes to the sound.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

... more long continuous grains of wood in the top and back plates having wider center bouts which contributes to the sound.

Contributes in a positive way or a negative way?

I read that a lot but I don't get what the length of the wood fibres/grains has to do with the price of eggs.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Contributes in a positive way or a negative way?

I read that a lot but I don't get what the length of the wood fibres/grains has to do with the price of eggs.

Longer fibers uninterrupted by bout curves and blocks produces a deeper sound. The new copy bass proved that as it's the deepest plush sounding bass that Arnold has produced from similar woods.

Eggs? Price depends on where you shop..

One more think on sound. This bass before restoration had a similar sound to the attributed Maggini (now attributed d'Salo) that Tom Martin has beed trying to sell for some 300 GBP but will go to auction soon at a 150-200 GBP estimated return. Also, the Seraphin attributed bass (formerly attributed to Busan) that was traded to the Minnesota Orchestra a few years back for the Maggini?/dSalo? bass also had a similar sound.

The other two basses mentioned above are Large Violin outlined basses close to or at a 4/4 measurement depending on who you ask. My Cornerless bass although a 44+" string length then, fit in a 3/4 bag and has medium depth ribs. Still, it put out sound as deep, thick and loud as the others.

So, in this case, design beats size with no loss or sound.

Unless you play these basses, it's very hard to understand what I am saying as I myself thought I understood it until I played all 3 of these basses within the same year or so. It's a live and learn kinda thing in my opinion. Until you taste it, you don't know what I am describing. The same with sound and feel. My 2 cents.