ISB 2013, Fifths

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Scott Pope

Regarding the 4ths to 5ths tuning for a four string bass and as to whether there is any more tension requiring the bass bar to be altered, here's something to consider: On the TI website, the factory specs for tension for a set of S42 Weichs is just shy of @ 260 lbs total tension. The 5ths Mitts set is right on 260 lbs, or just a fraction more, total tension for the set.

So it would seem quite the contrary: a well-designed 4-string set of 5ths tuning strings should be about the same as a conventional 4ths set of strings, and because everything is going down, a 4ths set of strings loosened up to the 5ths tuning will actually have less tension.

This is, of course, a completely different issue from adding a 5th string, which if a player likes the feel of a certain 4-string set, and adds a matching 5th string, by definition, that's adding roughly 25% more tension to the top of the bass.

As highlighted above I think you are wrong. Everything is NOT going down. To have even tension as best as possible we can start with the only string not getting changed (maybe). That is the D. The G going up to an A would be thinner like a Solo G/A string. The A going down to a G would be a heavier string to maintain tension in the set. The E will NOT be going down to C. For that, you need a special made C or, a B string that tunes up to C at even tension with the rest of the set. Some 5-string DB players actually tunes the fifth string to a C instead of B. It avoids one shift but for octave passages, the B is better or rather more familiar to use.

I have taken a few basses and tuned them up and down to put the bass in fifths and although it was in 5ths, the tension was all over the place so, not the thing to do if you wanna play in 5ths for real. For a quick trial of the tuning 'musically speaking' it's ok.

One bass that came in awhile ago for a possible trade was tuned in 5ths with a correct set of strings. In order for me to test and evaluate the bass, I had to put a regular set of strings on to test the bass. As soon as I did, the string height came up as if it had taken enough tension off of the top to allow the wood to spring upwards. This to me meant that that particular set of strings had way more downward pressure on the Top than a 4 string set.

When a company tells you the pressure or poundage of a string, is it the downward pressure on the Top over the bridge they are measuring? I would like to see what the use to test this. Maybe they are testing the length and pitch only because this doesn't add up in my mind at all.

Also, each bass has different wood (even if the exact same species) as far as grain strength goes, different arching which will give it more or less strength under the bridge, different graduations and also, a different bass bar. Length, width and design of the bouts in regards to the Top also makes a difference.

As with any bass, a string that works and sounds well on one bass may not work the same on another.

Also, I was mainly talking or rather asking about 5th in regards to a Bowing bass. Spirocores are not really the first choice for bowing. They are maybe the first for jazz that are used smaller modern 3/4 basses that are more affordable for the masses but the larger and often the more expensive/older basses used in Orchestras are a bit more finicky and require just the perfect match for bass, player, bow and style.

I think 90-something percent of the time, you can just throw on Spiro-reds on any Juzek-type 3/4 and play jazz for the rest of your life. This is not the case at all for bowing classical. There is no main string anymore for classical. This would apply for 4ths or 5ths tuning as well as 5-string set-up as well. Once you put a bow in your hands, everything changes, a lot!