Spirocore Red's, Orchestral ??

[Anselm Hauke]

this one?

TI saiten.pdf

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

this one?

Attachment 2446

Wow, great. Much more info than the email but that was specifically for just one model.

Now that we have you here, I have mentioned that I think Spiro reds are more common in Europe for Orchestra than the states, I think. Can you elaborate a little on that in any way? I know you play bass in German Orchestras so your personal experience and observations with S.Reds would be warmly welcomed here.

[Terry McDougal]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Wow, great. Much more info than the email but that was specifically for just one model.

Now that we have you here, I have mentioned that I think Spiro reds are more common in Europe for Orchestra than the states, I think. Can you elaborate a little on that in any way? I know you play bass in German Orchestras so your personal experience and observations with S.Reds would be warmly welcomed here.

Yes Anselm, I'm really interested to hear your thoughts too.

[Anselm Hauke]

well, i am not very active in symphony orchestras these days.
but i remember a majority of flexocore players.

[Scott Pope]

The T-I downloadable pdf chart has been around a long time. It is useful, but limited. Tension specs are like a bird watcher's nature book. It will give you general descriptions and get you to the right area to try to see what you're looking for, but won't give you the final answer. A tension guide is not like an engineering manual where you consult the specifications desired to make a decision about structure. The tension specs will say nothing about tone, arco and pizz characteristics, that always subjective "feel," and so on. Finally, the speaking length measurements are necessary to see if a string will actually fit, especially for the E string: if the string is too long, especially for the E string (and B string if a 5), if too much speaking length is around the tuning post, it can affect the integrity of the string. (Mini rant: that's why I don't see the point of "traditional" tuning peg placement. Something like Upton does, reversing the stagger, is much more logical from a string silk leader perspective.)

One more limitation: you can't directly compare the tension specs for those strings listed as suitable for 110 cm mensure (T-I's version of "4/4") and those listed as suitable for 106 cm mensure (T-I's version of "3/4"). Tension varies as to the square of the difference in mensure, so to find out what the "real" tension of an S42 string when strung on a 106 cm mensure bass instead of a 110 cm mensure bass, some math has to be done. I did the math. My chart to directly compare the sets is over on TalkBass. Here is the raw data; this is the best I can do to get it into a nice chart with columns on this forum for ease of reading:

                           G    D    A    E   Total
S42 4/4 Light             55.3 59.3 61.4 63.4 239.4
S42 4/4 Medium            61.4 65.5 69.6 69.6 266.1
S42 4/4 Heavy             73.7 73.7 75.8 77.8 301.0
4/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch       50.3 55.3 55.3 55.3 216.2
3/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch       56.0 57.8 57.8 57.8 229.4
3885 3/4 Light            60.6 61.7 63.9 66.1 252.3
3885 3/4 Medium           67.2 68.3 70.5 72.8 278.8

When I have time, I'll see if I can take the email chart for silk and speaking lengths and try to do the same thing for here.

[Ken Smith]

The Subject is Sprio REDS, the Mediums only. The size of your bass will determine which set you get, the S42s or the 3885s, All the other models and gauges are irrelevant at the moment as far as my question goes.

S42 4/4 Medium 61.4 65.5 69.6 69.6 = 266.1

3885 3/4 Medium 67.2 68.3 70.5 72.8 = 278.8

What do these numbers mean under my fingers and on my Neck or Bow? The 4/4 set is lower then the 3/4 set? When I ordered a normal set they sent me the 3885s according to my invoice. But, when I ordered a C ext. string for that same set, it was a C S44.

So, regardless of which length you need, the Red's are the Red's because you can't use a string too long or short for your bass.

As far as Tuning Peg placement goes, the reverse placement idea came from the French, back in the 19th century. The New Standards from Arnold and Wil come with reverse gears as well and have so for as long as I have known those basses. Many early-mid 20th century German basses from both Meyer and Pollmann have reverse tuners as well as 2 on the bass side of the 5ers. They too have realized the need for more after length on thicker strings. But, it is not so easy sometimes with reverse tuners to put a low C-extension on and use the top gear. In this case, the lower gear normal E post would be the longer after length for the E/C string.

The best way I have found for the Low E with standard placement of the gears is to put the E on the upper Gear like it would be if you had a C extension. This way, when switching back between a regular 4 and a bass with Ext., the E and A are on the same posts. On my 5er, I have 3 gears on the bass side so I put the A lowest, E middle and B the upper most peg, usually for the A. So in this case, the B switched with the A giving way to the larger string to be the longest after length. Ok, END of off topic!..

So, who here has experience with Orchestral Bowing using Spiro Reds, Medium gauge, Red at both ends?

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

As far as Tuning Peg placement goes, the reverse placement idea came from the French, back in the 19th century. The New Standards from Arnold and Wil come with reverse gears as well and have so for as long as I have known those basses. Many early-mid 20th century German basses from both Meyer and Pollmann have reverse tuners as well as 2 on the bass side of the 5ers.

Actually, Ken, I think the G-low placement is a holdover from converted 3 stringers. Most of them had the two upper strings on the treble side of the pegbox, and the single string on the bass side. Then, when converting to 4 strings, many luthiers just filled the peg hole on the low side and drilled two holes there. That leaves the G string peg as the lowest in the pegbox. I've seen this on several converted basses. Most makers of 4 string basses keep the E string as the lowest, and conversions done early on often used plates, which were oriented that way as well.