Thomastik Bel Canto Strings

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Scott Pope

Well, a little preamp gain and touch of compression can go a long way to make a gig work. Although it probably sounded fine out front, I was not happy with the darkness of the Bels for this particular gig, which comes as no surprise as they are really not meant for this kind of gig. But the bandleader liked it, and with strings being expensive, I'm not sure I'm in a position right now to have different string sets for different gigs.

Great experience, however.

I am curious. If you are doing mainly Pizz type jazz/pop playing, why not just use Spiro reds? They pizz better, more clear and cost less? The Belcantos were designed for Orchestra bowing so every problem you have in Pizz playing is because they focused on the opposite, bowing!

Most basses do not do both orchestra bowing and jazz pizz equally well with the same set of strings on the same bass. If Bowing is your goal, Bel's are a good choice for some depending on the bass, tone and style you play. If it is jazz you are looking to do, I would not suggest these strings for most players for the reasons mentioned.

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I am curious. If you are doing mainly Pizz type jazz/pop playing, why not just use Spiro reds? They pizz better, more clear and cost less? The Belcantos were designed for Orchestra bowing so every problem you have in Pizz playing is because they focused on the opposite, bowing!

Most basses do not do both orchestra bowing and jazz pizz equally well with the same set of strings on the same bass. If Bowing is your goal, Bel's are a good choice for some depending on the bass, tone and style you play. If it is jazz you are looking to do, I would not suggest these strings for most players for the reasons mentioned.

I agree, they're too loose for pizz playing. The EP weichs have a good jazz sound but are a bit slow under the bow.

[Scott Pope]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I am curious. If you are doing mainly Pizz type jazz/pop playing, why not just use Spiro reds? They pizz better, more clear and cost less? The Belcantos were designed for Orchestra bowing so every problem you have in Pizz playing is because they focused on the opposite, bowing!

Most basses do not do both orchestra bowing and jazz pizz equally well with the same set of strings on the same bass. If Bowing is your goal, Bel's are a good choice for some depending on the bass, tone and style you play. If it is jazz you are looking to do, I would not suggest these strings for most players for the reasons mentioned.

I got the Bels for three reasons: I wanted a dark pizz tone to try, by reputation these are the easiest strings for arco out there, and I got them slightly used really inexpensively by comparison to their new list price. Well, despite my best efforts and ongoing consultations with and help from my friends who teach, arco is probably just not going to happen, in spite of all the work I've put into it. I am left handed, but I have always played musical instruments conventionally right handed. So the same reason I'm not having much luck developing a good arco technique is the same reason I do not play 5-string banjo or play fingerpick style guitar: the right hand faculty just is not there beyond traditional index & middle jazz pizz technique, although from mashing valves since 5th grade my right hand works well for tuba. Worse, my right hand cramps, irrespective of French or German bow, or any reasonable adaptation of grip on either that my friends have had me try. These are my limitations as a player, and I came to terms with that some time ago.

Now, for these "standards" jazz/dance band gigs I've been playing, the band leaders have really enjoyed the tone and the flavor of pizz the Bels produce. I like the feel of the strings and the relatively even tension across the board.

Richard: yes, they are a little lighter than Spiro Mittels, but for the same reasons that I had to have a custom fanned-fret electric bass made, so I could keep playing in spite of old injuries cropping up and causing me grief, I won't be using any strings that are any firmer, including Spiro Mitts, and yes, I've also had my bass looked over for setup, as we all know that a good setup will do more for ease of playing than any set of light tension strings. I think you'd agree it's hard to get any more "playable" than the tension of the Bels, on an even shorter 40.5 mensure, (false nutted down an inch - and if you saw my left pinky you'd know why) with string heights at the end of the fingerboard of 4-5-6-7 mm on G-D-A-E respectively, with no buzzing at all anywhere, and even then, at the end of a 3-hour gig, I've still been known to soak my hands in ice water, and, well, we're not even going to discuss my wedding ring over my knuckle. Even at that, I know I could get some Velvet Blues, or a set of any of the different models of solo gauge strings and tune them down to get even less tension, but then they wouldn't drive my top sufficiently for tone and stability. For now, as long as I can deal with them, the Bels are, for me, a good balance of heavy enough tension to drive my top but light enough I can actually play them all night. Every body else's mileage will vary.

If I play other gigs of the sort I did Saturday, I do have Jazzers in reserve, also purchased slightly used at a great price, that I will change into going forward. But for only two or three gigs per year of what I did Saturday, in an informal setting, I'm not too concerned.

The bottom line (pun intended) is that on my particular bass the S42 Weich Spiros I had initially were so growly on my bass they almost sounded like Rotosound Swingbass electric bass strings by comparison. Ironically, for that very reason they were a great transition, tonally, from playing electric bass in these bands until I purchased my double bass a few years ago and got up to speed with it.

Now, my band leaders really like what I'm doing with the Bels, and my opportunities for gigs have expanded. So as long as the guys who hire me like them, they're staying on. If they start getting too dark, or if I get asked to play with a different tone, or if my playing takes a different turn as to the balance of kinds of gigs I play, then I'll try something else. In the meantime, as my avocation, not my vocation, I'm having a great time with them and making enough on the side as a "weekend warrior" to be really fun and worth my while: I like them, my band leaders like them, our audiences like them. I get asked to play again: what more could a guy in my position ask for?!

If arco had worked out for me, we'd be having a completely different discussion, of course. And I did change out the Bel E for a Spiro 3/4 3885.5W E for the very reasons mentioned: the arco tone on the Bel E was great, but the pizz was just too dark, and I changed it out as soon as it became apparent that my arco was not going to get appreciably better, and sold it down the line to the next guy working on arco.

[Richard Prowse]

All good Scott, stay with the BCs. Hey, they worked fine for me in a gypsy jazz band a few years back.
I'm just a little worried about your lefthandedness and giving up bowing.
I too am left handed, but play the traditional way - I started playing violin around 1960 and people just didn't consider switching an instrument around back then. Though, I do suspect that I am slightly ambidexterous.
Look, my head is presently full of man-cold and I'm probably not thinking my best but getting on top of the bass bow takes a long time. Even after having been brought up on the violin, I remember bowing the bass for many years before I started to feel that I could really bow.
My advice - just do a little bowing each day, say 10 minutes, as you start your practice. Just bow long notes and listen for a nice sound and try to enjoy that sound.
I know Ken will disagree but, if you have hand problems, go German. Back off on the pressure - pull and push.
Cheers yankee mate.

[Scott Pope]

Originally Posted by Richard Prowse

I know Ken will disagree but, if you have hand problems, go German. Back off on the pressure - pull and push.
Cheers yankee mate.

That causes the inside of the fleshy part between my thumb and index finger to cramp. French causes the outside to cramp. No, for me, the ergonomics of arco just aren't there. I do appreciate the thought.

-- And BTW: after I got done posting last night, I got a phone call with a referral from our band's keyboard player, who is actually more of a bass player, to another gig, but who referred me instead of taking the gig himself because he believes I can read the gig better than he could. So life is good.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Scott Pope

That causes the inside of the fleshy part between my thumb and index finger to cramp. French causes the outside to cramp. No, for me, the ergonomics of arco just aren't there. I do appreciate the thought.

-- And BTW: after I got done posting last night, I got a phone call with a referral from our band's keyboard player, who is actually more of a bass player, to another gig, but who referred me instead of taking the gig himself because he believes I can read the gig better than he could. So life is good.

Ok, but don't give up on bowing. Get a good teacher and study the Bow properly. Bowing practice will take you to new places. The pain is worth the gain. Bad technique will cause cramps in minutes or even seconds. Bowing will strengthen even your left hand playing. That is a fact.

[Scott Pope]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Ok, but don't give up on bowing. Get a good teacher and study the Bow properly. Bowing practice will take you to new places. The pain is worth the gain. Bad technique will cause cramps in minutes or even seconds. Bowing will strengthen even your left hand playing. That is a fact.

Respectfully, Ken, after talking to my physician, and taking Tylenol and ice packs at the limit (I can't take anything else like ibuprofin due to a genetic clotting disorder), the pain is not worth the gain. After all the other injuries over the years, it makes it worse, not better. I wish it were different. But it's not. The guy who works with me, who I've known since we were 14 in band camp together, has taught for decades and is a bass player himself, not just a general strings teacher. The guy who reviewed my setup is a bass guy also, not just a general strings repairman, and has passed on my setup. Both have played my bass.

Oh, well, I've carried on too long. For what I am doing right now, the Bels are great. Thanks for everybody's help and encouragement. It's time for someone else to take a turn talking about them.