Italian or fake (hungarian)

[Ken Smith]

This bass has the same type of work as the other. Possibly the same guy in Hungary made both. If the bass is not close to $100k-$400k and has some history of where it has been and who played it, it is not an old Italian or English bass. Old basses don't just pop up from no where.

Now, I have seen a few, bought and sold a few and even have a few old looking recently made basses. I sell them as new basses that are made to look old but never represent them as being old. If you like the bass and it sounds good, buy it at the right price. But, don't go thinking that you might have a Busan or Goffriller for a steal at 1/10th the price.

One of the best restorers and makers in Europe is now also working in his 2nd Berlin shop as well as in Hungary, back and forth. Raez Barnabez. He is one of the guys that can tell what is fake or not because he knows the guys in Hungary that are doing this kind of work. Ask him!

[Gunter Grass]

dear ken,

thank you, very much for your opinion. even though i have seen and played quite a large number of basses, it´s still hard to tell what is fake and what not (just from looking at pics). the top looks quite old, but the back and the fakt that there are no cracks at all is very strange. anyway, thank you again.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Gunter Grass

dear ken,

thank you, very much for your opinion. even though i have seen and played quite a large number of basses, it´s still hard to tell what is fake and what not (just from looking at pics). the top looks quite old, but the back and the fakt that there are no cracks at all is very strange. anyway, thank you again.

The Top is a softer wood and cracks easier than the hardwood back. Round backs do not crack as much as flat backs. Cracks can be put into new basses and new basses can also be made with cracked and distorted wood to fake aging. A genuine old bass will show its distortion and condition over time depening on how it was cared for.

In Hungary, people there make from about $400-$600 a month in income from what I was told by Hungarians, Luthiers, Doctors, anyone, unless you have some other business on the side with the outside world. They are 100 years behind the world 'we' live in. To make a fake bass is their goal, those makers. Survival is to fake and make more money even if it takes 2-3 months to make it. Not all the Luthiers in Hungary are fakers, just some of them. They even take new basses from Romania and fake them as well to look old. I have seen them and had 2 of them here.

As for finding a good deal on a real old Italian bass, good luck. You will need it. lol

[Anselm Hauke]

hello gunther,

interesting bass. would you tell me who is the seller?
pm would be ok. thanks.

[Gunter Grass]

sorry for the late reply. the seller is private, although he sells more often basses and sends me emails if he offers one. i could ask him if its ok if i send you his contact info.

regards

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Gunter Grass

sorry for the late reply. the seller is private, although he sells more often basses and sends me emails if he offers one. i could ask him if its ok if i send you his contact info.

regards

There are many people around the world as well as shops now trying to pass off these fakes as real. I was just offered several basses from Italy and each of the basses claiming to be old Italian were in my opinion new Hungarian or slightly older Hungarian or German. Not one was Italian or near the age claimed.

People can make a business selling new basses as old. I have several NEW basses in stock that were made to look old and I sell them as new. I also have some that were re-built with some old parts like original top and back and new ribs and re-built scroll or pegbox from other basses. These we call Composite basses with mixed parts new and old. I can sell them as all old and original but that would be a lie and no one would know but me and the maker. Only an expert or many of them together can map out the forensics of what this bass is an was. I have the recipe from the people that sold me the basses so it is passed on honestly and without deception. Be careful with people that always have old basses without cracks and distress from age.

[Pino Cazzaniga]

[quote=Ken Smith;26737]There are many people around the world as well as shops now trying to pass off these fakes as real. I was just offered several basses from Italy and each of the basses claiming to be old Italian were in my opinion new Hungarian or slightly older Hungarian or German.


I hope that there is no italian luthier involved in this kind of deal, which is unfair to both musicians and makers.

About three years ago a customer of mine bought one of these basses from Hungary, which he found on the internet.

The seller said him that it was old, "probably" italian, found in a Church. The musician did not tell anything to anybody, went in Hungary and bought the bass, for a very low price.

The instrument was new and quite heavy, but the sound was good enough to give it a try.

We did some minor repairs and waited an year to be sure not to waste time, then I did some other small repairs and a massive set up work, and at last the bass was good.

So good actually that the musician wanted to contact the seller to let the original luthier make another one, new, not antiqued, and with his label inside.

Now, the musician is a good and well known one, so there was an opportunity for the luthier to get a better market and develop his work.
Well, once he was contacted, the seller disappeared, no more email address, no phone number, nothing.


The musician is still playing that bass, but he paid it much more than its market value, if you consider repairs, waiting time, set up, travel to and from Hungary. Besides, the sound is luckily good, but the bass is heavy to carry around.

The original maker earned, I think, a fraction of the original low price, and did not have or even know of any chance to develop his work.

So, nobody is really happy with that deal.