Upton Basses

[Michael Case]

I don't wanna come off the wrong way, but I need to ask this question for my own satisfaction. If Upton has these basses built in a factory in Romania and all they do is varnish, add fingerboard, bridge, soundpost, end-pin, and set-up. What makes these basses so different than any other factory bass (hybrid or carved) in the same price range set-up by the luthier of your choice.

I'd like to know because I'm sort of considering a Professor bass or saving a bit more scratch and getting a NS LaScala Hybrid or carved if possible.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Michael Case

I don't wanna come off the wrong way, but I need to ask this question for my own satisfaction. If Upton has these basses built in a factory in Romania and all they do is varnish, add fingerboard, bridge, soundpost, end-pin, and set-up. What makes these basses so different than any other factory bass (hybrid or carved) in the same price range set-up by the luthier of your choice.

I'd like to know because I'm sort of considering a Professor bass or saving a bit more scratch and getting a NS LaScala Hybrid or carved if possible.

"What makes these basses so different"?.. 'Nothing' really! These Basses I believe come from the Gliga workshop. Eroy used to work for JR Music who makes and sells the Calin Wultur line of string instruments. After moving to Upton, he brought his contacts with him from what I understand. JR offers this same Bass in both Hybrid and Plywood with two 'finish' choices. One is lacquer from Gliga and the other is Varnish from Wultur which is an upgrade.

I bought 6 Basses from JR and sold most of them already. I just ordered a basic ply and a hybrid upgraded. I am the only shop near Philly so I have to have Basses in all ranges. Having just high end doesn't get the job done if you are going to service the area with Basses for sale.

Not to advertise above but pointing out my 'first hand' experience is more believable than just theory. The NS Basses from AES (Arnold and Wil) are completely different. These are from Basses made in good shop Germany with the Necks shipped separate. Arnold's shop sets and fits the neck for proper angle and neck stand as well as carves the heel and neck stop to order. Upton doesn't put the neck in as you can see from the link above on Upton.

What would I prefer if asked? Well, Upton has good to great lengths to try and corner this market flooding TalkBass with Ads and even threads and postings to back up their claims. I call it the TalkUpton website because I had trouble over there trying to discuss anything else without moderator interference to protect their 'income' from Upton. SO.. I would go with the JR for the lower price point or a Shen and then the New Standard Basses for the 'elite' type plywood, hybrid or even fully carved. I see no difference in a fullly carved Cleveland or La Scala model and lets say a Wilfer or Stoll Bass Grade or quality wise. The difference is that you get one of the top Restoration shops in the country doing the same neck set work as any member of the NY Philarmonic, Met Opera orch, NYC Ballet Orch, National Symphony, Boston Sym, etc as I have seen many old classic Basses in Arnolds shop getting work done. It's nice to know the 'elite' goes there as well as the beginner and intermediate players including all styles of playing. This is not something you will find at Upton otherwise it would be all over his website in his repair section as he does not get this clientele on a regular basis from what I have heard.

Choices are then Shen or JR in the 2k range and NS in the 4k and up. Deal with the best shop you can find. How can you tell which is the best shop? Ask the Bass section in your local Symphony who they trust their English, Italian and French Orchestra Basses with the most if price was no object.

An Upton Bass is a Gliga Bass without the Varnish, Fingerboard and with LaFaro copy FF holes which in my opinion is NOT a Prescott Bass. The name Hawkes and Professor are 'borrowed' from the English firm that contracted Basses mainly in Germany called 'Hawkes Panormo' in 3 grades being the Concert, Professor and Hawkes. The Hawkes is reported to be made in England but this is not 100% proven. Also, Basses were made in France under the name 'Riviere and Hawkes' which mainly look like a French Jacquet Bass. I was offered a Bass for sale once that looked to be a 'Paul Claudot Bass' but passed on it. Later it was sold and opened up only to discover it had and inscription inside the table marked 'Riviere and Hawkes'. Look at my Links just above and see how these two could be easily confused.

The higher shouldered JR Basses from Gliga are called a Panormo model as that's exactly what they copied to make the Hawkes over 100 years ago in England. I like original names and if you are going to copy something at least give credit where it's due. The Professor model was a lower grade than the Hawkes model made about 100 years ago. Upton is now reversing these two putting the Professor name in 'lights' as if it's some improvement.

[Michael Case]

I already have a Czech factory bass (hybrid Strunal). I've had the fingerboard, bridge, tailgut, replaced at Gage. So basically I have a bass similar to an Upton? I love the sound of my bass and don't feel a real need to make a sideways move. I think I'm going to take a trip to Gage, 30 minutes by subway instead of 2 or more hours to Connecticut, during the week (SPRING BREAK!) and look at some basses in the $5,000 range. Then I'm going to see if Arnold has a NS in stock that I can check out and take a drive to his place.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Ken,
I completely understand your comments and can't really argue the validity of any of them. However, a couple of things come to mind.
Finishes: If the basses come with either a lacquer or varnish (upgrade) finish, what is the price difference. The Uptons come with an oil varnish tinted to the customer's preference. This is their standard finish.
Comparing them to a NS is a fair comparison, but there is a significant price difference. Several top bassists in town, including a member of the KC Symphony, have played my bass and commented on the fine setup. None have mentioned any problem with the neck set. My teacher told me he had never seen as nice a bass for so little money. I'm not disputing the potential benefit of Arnolds methods; merely the practical benefits in terms of value. A LaScala is a beautiful bass, but twice the price of my Upton and certainly out of my price range.
FF's and Hype: I agree with you on this. Personally, I don't care at all how some designer came up with my FF's. Give me a classic design that fits the bass and don't make a big deal about it.
I do agree that Upton occasionally crosses the line on TB. They are trying to build a business and sell product. Were I in their position, I would like to think I'd lower the hype, but I can't say for sure.
Sizzle helps to sell the steak.
Due to the fact that I live in Kansas, much of what you are saying is theoretical anyway. There aren't any Shen, Wultur or NS basses within hundreds of miles of me. KC Strings offers a Chinese line that frankly doesn't compare. Another shop offers Eastmans on a special order basis carrying no stock. Then there are the guys like Branstetter who may have a bass or two on occasion. In my market, the supply is limited. Had I purchased a Gigla bass from JR for instance, by the time I paid shipping, and a full set up, the bass would have been much more than $2000.
The Upton came to me with a great set up, oil varnish in the color of my choosing for $2600. Even at the current price of $2900, I think they are a fair value given the level of set up offered. For me it was a good choice. If I lived in a larger city with more choices, I may have made a different choice.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

One more thing. Calling an Upton a Hawkes, Panormo or whatever has no significance with me. It's like the guy in Phoenix calling his bass 'Wan Bernadel' lol. They could have called my bass 'Design #1' for all I care.

But again, names do affect the marketability of products. Remember the Edsel?

[Ken Smith]

Here is the dealer list for JR; http://www.jrmusicsupply.com/stores.htm

I can see how availability can make the difference as well as free shipping offered but I just want to point out what is and what isn't and give some other options.

Of course their Basses have merits in their class. They are just not the only game in town, that's all.

[Michael Case]

I was asking if an Upton bass would be a reasonable upgrade for someone with a factory bass that has all the perks of an Upton (new fingerboard, bridge, end pin)? Or should I set my sites on something a little higher up the food chain (NS or older European bass in the same price range)?

I have seen so many Romanian basses with the same design as the Upton's. My school (City College of New York) recently purchased a 12 year old Romanian bass, with a very dark and antiqued finish for $10,000 my teacher went to Gage's and picked it out, needless to say it sounds fantastic. I know a player who has a 5 year old solid bass, also Romanian, very similar to the Upton that he paid about the same price they want for the professor. Personally I think the bass my school purchased WOULD be a reasonable upgrade soundwise, but the other Romanian I mentioned isn't that impressive. It just gets me thinking.

I'm very happy with my bass at the moment, but I know that an upgrade will serve me well in the future. I'm curious about Upton because of the price.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Michael Case

I was asking if an Upton bass would be a reasonable upgrade for someone with a factory bass that has all the perks of an Upton (new fingerboard, bridge, end pin)? Or should I set my sites on something a little higher up the food chain (NS or older European bass in the same price range)?

I have seen so many Romanian basses with the same design as the Upton's. My school (City College of New York) recently purchased a 12 year old Romanian bass, with a very dark and antiqued finish for $10,000 my teacher went to Gage's and picked it out, needless to say it sounds fantastic. I know a player who has a 5 year old solid bass, also Romanian, very similar to the Upton that he paid about the same price they want for the professor. Personally I think the bass my school purchased WOULD be a reasonable upgrade sound wise, but the other Romanian I mentioned isn't that impressive. It just gets me thinking.

I'm very happy with my bass at the moment, but I know that an upgrade will serve me well in the future. I'm curious about Upton because of the price.

An upgrade from your Factory Bass should NOT be another Factory Bass which is what an Upton is actually. They don't make the Bass. Also, I am not sure their so called Oil Varnish is any better than what they could get directly from Romania. Jeff Bollbach finished his Pallota Lion with oil Varnish using about 17 thin coats sun-dried between coats. Now that is better than a factory Varnish BUT the cost is greater than what Upton paid for their Bass in the white from Romania. I Highly doubt they put a tenth of the work into varnishing a plywood Bass. Also, WHO is doing this Varnish work? A Pro maker or a teenager from the skateboard park? Jeff's Bass was made for the ISB competition. Would Upton enter their 'hand oil varnished' 'Hawkes' (lol) in an ISB competition for the Judges to view their work for the world. I'm sorry but every time I hear the name Hawkes and Upton I have to take a deep breath because a Hawks Bass is actually a Hawkes Panormo copy supplied to Boosey & Hawkes or Hawkes & Son in London c.1880 - c1925 or so. The earlier dates yielding Riviere-Hawkes models made in Mirecourt France and the latter from Germany or a few maybe from London or finished in London.

The first thing a player does when testing out a Bass is playing over the shoulders to get up to thumb position. The Dragonetti (a standard piece) requires playing harmonics way past the fingerboard on all strings but the E. The Hawkes shape is not one I would buy for this kind of work. Why make a modern Bass or maybe promote one that has a shape that has caused so many Basses to be cut-down in order to play the upper registers?

Anyway, as you can see I am not much of a fan of Uptons in any shape or form, sorry. Some of it is personal from how I was 'muted' over on TalkBass by the mods when I got into discussions and even had a post deleted by them because it pointed the finger 'in gest' mind you at their tactics to get attention. Even if their Bass was the better of the two from the JR version, I would not do business with them. That's my personal opinion.

Now, back to your upgrade question again. Tell us your budget with or without trade and you will get some suggestions. If you don't know Paul Biase in NYC, then PM me for his info. He IS the top shop in NY for high grade Basses and has a few mid and lower cost Basses as well. I know him for 35 years and would be dealing with him if I were still living in the city. As a matter of fact, he is restoring my Mystery Bass besides us working together on some other sales or Basses, Bows and even Violins. From a Juzek Bass to a Strad Violin, this is all common ground for Biase. If you like, feel free to show some pics of your current Bass in the designated Forum.