Guitar and Pear-Shaped

[Ken Smith]

I have noticed that in proportion, my Bass and some other Cornerless Basses have thicker edges which might be for protection. This may help it over time from having to be re-edged during Top repairs.

[Matthew Tucker]

How wide are those bottom ribs Ken? they look DEEEEP!



When I made my purfling I resolved to try a flexible glue like PVA next time as the hide glue was just too brittle.

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

How wide are those bottom ribs Ken? they look DEEEEP!



When I made my purfling I resolved to try a flexible glue like PVA next time as the hide glue was just too brittle.

They are almost 10 inches at the bottom block, but the ribs taper to 8.5 at the upper bout and then down to less than 6 at the neck. When I designed the bass, I was thinking full sized bottom with 3/4 string length and playablility. That was before Ken's comments about depth of ribs versus depth of sound. When I get the top glued on I may alter the width, maybe not though.


I am going to glue the strips in separately so the hide glue should not be an issue as that can slip around and conform the the shape.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I have notice that in proportion my Bass and some other Cornerless Basses have thicker edges for protection. This may help it over time from having to be re-edged during Top repairs.

But why would this be a feature of cornerless basses?

I would have thought regular basses would have the same if not more issues with edge repairs with all those corners to catch on things.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

But why would this be a feature of cornerless basses?

I would have thought regular basses would have the same if not more issues with edge repairs with all those corners to catch on things.

A Bass with 6 separate Ribs and 4 Corner Blocks (2 per side) is much stiffer and moves or twists less than a Bass with only two very long Ribs and NO Corner Blocks at all. A Cornerless Bass has the sound it has because it vibrates more freely and without restriction of the stiffened center Rib construction. I will assume from this that the thicker edges are to prevent edge splitting since the Bass can twist more within its form. The greatly distressed Ribs of my Bass are evidence of this movement as they took the blunt of the damages over time rather than the Top or Back. Both the Top and Back has their share of cracks and splits but the Top of this Bass pre-restoration is in better condition than my Hart/Fendt Bass was. The Hart needed a complete mold made to fix the Top whereas the 'Storioni' is estimated to need only a fraction or Arch correction and can be done without a mold at all.

Old Basses tell their own stories but the language they speak is not always easy to understand or even listened to at all sometimes. Learning from the past is a great thing but that effort must be made.

On the Rib depth of my Bass the maximum at the bottom is only 7 3/4" (Ribs only). My Dodd being the other 'loud'/deep sounding Bass I owned was only 7 1/2" deep. I put this Bass up against Homer's Gagliano and Biase's (ex Homers') Guadagnini and it was deeper and smoother than the both of them on all 4 strings. The person who bought my Dodd also went to Biase's on my recommendation and played those Basses as well but still liked my Dodd better.

Rib Depth alone does not make a Bass sound deeper or louder in my opinion. It's the whole Bass and its woods that do this I believe.

[Matthew Tucker]

What you say may be true. I guess I think there are relatively so few cornerless basses compared with regular basses that it's hard to make generalisations really meaningful, as there are still so many other variables. But we can try.

If cornerless basses sound so fine, generally, why then are they so outnumbered by regular ones?

(... and I was actually asking the other Ken about his rib depth on the build photo)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

What you say may be true. I guess I think there are relatively so few cornerless basses compared with regular basses that it's hard to make generalisations really meaningful, as there are still so many other variables. But we can try.

If cornerless basses sound so fine, generally, why then are they so outnumbered by regular ones?

(... and I was actually asking the other Ken about his rib depth on the build photo)

Yes, I know it was the other Ken but thought it valuable to once again throw in my two cents regardless..lol

Why so few? Well, tradition for one I would guess and pride maybe as well on the other hand. Guitar makers were not thought of as highly as Violin makers so that might be a mental block on their Cornerless beasts. Also, ever try lifting one around the stage or moving a few feet over from the player next to you? Where the heck do you grab the thing? I have a hard time moving it around but the sound makes up for it. Also, I can't lean it on the chair next to me like I do my other Basses. Should I glue a Block to the outside of the Ribs like a Horizontal 'bumper' to lift, carry and lean the Bass? This might be something to help with this problem I think as well as some Bumpers on the Upper and Lower Bouts to lay it down.

Cornerless Viol/Violin Family instruments have been made in Italy for hundreds of years but for some reason, they never change tradition. Even the Chanot's and others in France and England (19th century) made some cornerless Violins as well as others elsewhere. The Spaniards adopting the Guitar Form as their main style of making Basses after the Spanish Guitar itself took hold world wide. They are forgetting one thing here in Spain though! It's an Italian thing Bass-wise and not Spanish no matter how well 'borrowed' or adapted..

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Should I glue a Block to the outside of the Ribs like a Horizontal 'bumper' to lift, carry and lean the Bass? This might be something to help with this problem I think as well as some Bumpers on the Upper and Lower Bouts to lay it down.

maybe velcro can be called upon, again, to perform modern miracles ...

[Brian Gencarelli]

Ken McKay,

Just looked at some of your progress pics... looking good! I am getting inspired to give it a whirl myself... I will finally have a big project out of the workshop soon. (Dining room set restoration for my wife... about 8 months work so far.)

Once I have some room, I may be sending you a PM.

Carve on,
Brian

[Ken McKay]

It is haunting me now......


Now I have to cut those ribs down to a proper size. No big deal I will treat it like a restoration practice project. Shoot I could probably make an instrument out of the cut offs.

[Matthew Tucker]

Well you don't HAVE to cut them down. You'll never know whether your hunch was correct unless you try. I'd think about the look, too, from the side. Take some side-on shots with the top taped on. if you like the tapered look, keep it.

The gofriller in chandlers book has a nice taper from 9" at the saddle to about 7" at the heel, and that's a carved back with no bend. Looks nice and it's a master bass ...

have you done any calculations of the relative volume of the upper and lower bouts compared with another model?

[Ken McKay]

Well, I am working at the hospital for the next few days so that will give me some time to contemplate the issue. I took a look out of the corner of my eye when I entered my shop this morning and it hit me as "too big". And then I got to thinking about moving it around with a stand partner as Ken S. described.

You guys have been a great big help and I really appreciate your interest.The suggestions so far have resulted in making it something I can be satisfied with, so I thank you all for that, including Arnold's pm's. Designing a bass is a lot harder than I thought.

So until the weekend, I let it sit.