Breaking in a bass

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by David Powell

I was re-reading this thread while stirring some sugar into hot coffee.

That's your problem. Drinking it black will help you think more clearly.
Whassamadda, don't you like coffee the way it is.

[David Powell]

So here I am stirring the coffee again. It's not necessary. The sugar would disslove anyway, given enough time. But I'd like to drink it now, or at least in this lifetime. And even if it were not hot, the sugar would eventually dissolve anyway also. As long as it does not make a saturated solution and crystalize out. What is is, but a chemist would say what is is because of Brownian movement (no, that's not what happens after you eat a brownie). At room temperature Thermodynamics favors a uniform sugar solution in the water in the coffee. And by attempting to understand why what is is, the chemist might be able to make what isn't is.

And if I had a really sensitive thermometer, perhaps that old mercury one that I used when I hand developed 4x5 Ektachrome, I could see the coffee get hotter as I stir, because the stirring really is the heat, just like the heat is the stirring.

I have this 1965 Harmony Classical guitar. It was Dad's guitar. Dad didn't have a lot of time to play it, let alone time to waste posting on a DB internet forum. He read pulp fiction while his coffee got cold. Well, as was common with those inexpensive student guitars of that era, the solid spruce top was much better than the craftmanship that glued it to the mahogany sides, back, and neck. In short the intonation was horrible, and over time the instrument just mostly sat in the case in a closet. No one could bring themselves to sell Dad's old guitar, so as executor of his will, I wound up being the caretaker of it with the understanding it would be a family heirloom. So one day in the mid nineties I got it out of the closet and strummed it. It wasn't in tune, but something had changed over the years. The tone was incredible. So I did some research and fixed the bridge bone using the factory specifications for the string clearances at the 12th and 17th fret that at the time were published on the internet by the Korean company that bought the old Harmony brand name. And now the guitar sounds fabulous. But no one stirred it for 25 years or more. It simply aged in the case. In this case, I think it is evidence that the perceived improvement that I heard in tone would have happened anyway due to aging. Playing it over the years might have speeded it up, but that didn't happen in this case, although I do play it some now. Also the top color was very different even though it had been in a dark closet. What had been a very light colored spruce top had become a honey golden color. And the top had a hairline crack right down the middle where it was joined (no problem, there was a brace right under the join.)

I guess what I am saying is this, and it is really the only part of my idea that is theoretical, the rest is well accepted, and that is this: That the changes we perceive as a result of aging or playing, or by Reumont's procedure, are all really the same thing, just happening at different rates depending on various factors that speed up the inevitable changes in the wood as it progresses toward the state most favored by Thermodynamics. I think that is as simply as I can state the concept. I would never pretend that it is fact. It's just an idea. What is, is, and by thermodynamics, what will be, will be.

And I will graciously thank Mr. Ken Smith for indulging me and allowing me to post my idea here and remind him that I have no better way to waste my time than in the present company here. Oops. The coffee is cold!

[Paul Warburton]

I had an old ISB magazine...back in the days when they looked like newspapers... that had an article and a picture of a guy and his son with a gizmo the dad had rigged up to bow open strings on the sons bass, while the son was in the army. It was made with a couple of pulleys and the old man would turn it on using a timer each day!
I saw a Nova program once where a guy played a new violin and they were able to take pictures of the molecules in the top of the violin. The molecules looked like so many sperm trying to move out of a chunk of other sperm. Don't laugh! Then they handed him a Strad..... the molecules had actually carved a path in the top, looking something like a river!
Something to think about? Or bull****?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Paul,
I don't think I'll go near my bass today, thank you.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I saw a Nova program once where a guy played a new violin and they were able to take pictures of the molecules in the top of the violin. The molecules looked like so many sperm trying to move out of a chunk of other sperm. Don't laugh! Then they handed him a Strad..... the molecules had actually carved a path in the top, looking something like a river!
Something to think about? Or bull****?

Sounds like Joseph Nagyvary has got himself back on PBS again. How many times has he rediscovered the "secret" of Stardivarius? I lost count.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Sounds like Joseph Nagyvary has got himself back on PBS again. How many times has he rediscovered the "secret" of Stardivarius? I lost count.

Bob, the real secret I seek about Strad is how he lived to 93 years of age in the early 18th century! Forget about his Varnish, I want some of that Pasta and Wine!

[David Powell]

Well, all theories aside, I had another practical experience with this last night. I had been playing with a couple of folk fellows for about a year and last year due to other commitments, family, etc., these two fellows took a long break. We have a gig soon requested by an old fan so last night we put the band back together and the perception of both of those fellows was that my bass was both louder now and has more bottom end now. I haven't changed anything about the set-up of the bass in almost 3 years now. They were using amps on the dreadnoughts to keep up with my volume. Of course for the last year my bass has been getting a lot of playing time.

Just out of curiosity, how large are wormholes and the worms that chew on basses? I have some odd looking almost microscopic looking little winding patterns forming under the finish of the bass on the top where the corner blocks are glued to the top. Could that be a sign of an infestation? It is just in the areas where the corner blocks are. I'd take a photo, but I don't have any macro attachments for digital cameras and these are really, really, tiny little lines.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

Well, all theories aside, I had another practical experience with this last night. I had been playing with a couple of folk fellows for about a year and last year due to other commitments, family, etc., these two fellows took a long break. We have a gig soon requested by an old fan so last night we put the band back together and the perception of both of those fellows was that my bass was both louder now and has more bottom end now. I haven't changed anything about the set-up of the bass in almost 3 years now. They were using amps on the dreadnoughts to keep up with my volume. Of course for the last year my bass has been getting a lot of playing time.

Just out of curiosity, how large are wormholes and the worms that chew on basses? I have some odd looking almost microscopic looking little winding patterns forming under the finish of the bass on the top where the corner blocks are glued to the top. Could that be a sign of an infestation? It is just in the areas where the corner blocks are. I'd take a photo, but I don't have any macro attachments for digital cameras and these are really, really, tiny little lines.

Worm holes are about the size or a small pin maybe 1mm or so at most. I have never seen the actual worm myself, just the holes.

Basses shift in the summer and winter. Some basses sound better one season or another depending on the bass and its set-up. On wood aging, I doubt your Bass was aged as well as some of the older instruments especially those by the master makers. Then again, many quick made instruments were not seasoned as well and after 100 years, look much worse that well season wooded made instruments well over 200 years old.

One of the secrets is not a secret. It's just good quality and care in every step of the making. This is something that many makers could not afford to do money and time wise. They needed to make a living as well. The Back on my Hart Bass (c.1830) is to die for while my Loveri Back (bass made 1873) is just the opposite although I have seen worse, much worse and on Basses half their age!

[Bob Branstetter]

I knew it had to be Nagyvary and it was. Here an article on his latest brainstorm. This time the "secret" is borax. He seems to come up with a new "secret" about every ten years. He always gets lots of free air time on PBS and more grant money from the government whenever he announces his latest "discovery". When his "discoveries" are questioned by organizations that have been doing serious violin research for over 50 years such as the Catgut Acoustical Society, his answer is always something like this quote. "The American Chemical Society has confirmed my research and my basic premise - that chemicals are the prominent reason why a Stradivarius has such a distinct sound."

Soooooo - If you want to find out about great violins, visit your local chemist.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I had an old ISB magazine...back in the days when they looked like newspapers... that had an article and a picture of a guy and his son with a gizmo the dad had rigged up to bow open strings on the sons bass, while the son was in the army. It was made with a couple of pulleys and the old man would turn it on using a timer each day!
I saw a Nova program once where a guy played a new violin and they were able to take pictures of the molecules in the top of the violin. The molecules looked like so many sperm trying to move out of a chunk of other sperm. Don't laugh! Then they handed him a Strad..... the molecules had actually carved a path in the top, looking something like a river!
Something to think about? Or bull****?

Paul, this is probably just some old Worm tracks. I have a few Basses that have old Worm marks so looking inside, one would see the tracks they made while feeding.`

If only a dead Worm could talk...

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Paul, this is probably just some old Worm tracks. I have a few Basses that have old Worm marks so looking inside, one would see the tracks they made while feeding.`

If only a dead Worm could talk...

Naw, Kenny Boy, these were molecules taken with a camera....they looked like so many SPERM making tracks. I saw this with my own eyeballs!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Naw, Kenny Boy, these were molecules taken with a camera....they looked like so many SxxxM making tracks. I saw this with my own eyeballs!

Paul, you're in 'rare form' today. I am glad to see you're feeling better.

But why do you always have to be so serious?..

Both my Martini and Gilkes seems to have some old Worm tracks. Are you suggesting I look closer to see if something else 'breeding' there?

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Naw, Kenny Boy, these were molecules taken with a camera....they looked like so many SPERM making tracks. I saw this with my own eyeballs!

I would assume that since Paul is talking about molecules, that he is actually talking about are photos taken through an electron microscope or something similar. I imagine that a wood worm hole would like like Carlsbad Caverns on a photo like that.

[David Powell]

Paul, it occurred to me that when you found the Bohmann, it had extremely low mileage, but was already several decades old. Did it sound great from the first day or did it "play in" pretty rapidly? I'm thinking it might have had those molecules streaming the first day you played it?