Breaking in a bass

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I knew it had to be Nagyvary and it was. Here an article on his latest brainstorm. This time the "secret" is borax. He seems to come up with a new "secret" about every ten years. He always gets lots of free air time on PBS and more grant money from the government whenever he announces his latest "discovery". When his "discoveries" are questioned by organizations that have been doing serious violin research for over 50 years such as the Catgut Acoustical Society, his answer is always something like this quote. "The American Chemical Society has confirmed my research and my basic premise - that chemicals are the prominent reason why a Stradivarius has such a distinct sound."

Soooooo - If you want to find out about great violins, visit your local chemist.

To a chemist, biology is nothing but chemistry; to a physicist, chemistry is nothing but physics; to a mathematician, physics is all just mathematics; to a philosopher, mathematics is just applied philosophy. It seems to be a matter of people ****yzing things from their own limited perspective in any case. But I tend to look at things in terms of the chemistry as well, not this is an endorsement of Nagyvary. I'm not familiar with his claims. But it is a very easy out to say that something is due to chemistry and nothing else because everything has a characteristic chemistry. It's quite different to look to chemistry for possible causes rather than "secrets". You know me, I think the idea that something is a "secret" is all BS. It just means we don't know why and probably Stradivari, if we could ask him, didn't know why either, even if he knew how. For years photographers thought sodium thiosulfate was sodium hyposulfate. The fixer didn't work any better or worse after its true chemical nature was described.

It is just as easy to say it is due to the weather because the weather is always there too. Incidentally, Ken, I think you are right about the summer / winter thing. My bass sounds better in the summer. I probably need to cut a winter soundpost for it. The one that's in there was cut in late August and one that I cut earlier in April of that year is about a sixteenth of an inch shorter.

I think Stradivari's secret was working with the construction phases in the natural cycles of the seasons. (that's not a real serious statement, but if it were, it would affect the chemistry, and Nagyvary would probably point that out.) If someone breathes on a piece of wood, it affects the chemistry. Everything effects the chemistry. If you want an all inclusive answer, the details will always be found in "the chemistry". The real question is one of cause and effect. What causes the characteristic chemistry? Chemistry by itself is just a snapshot of a state at a particular time. Without more to understand what makes the chemistry happen, it is a very open ended claim. Just like these people that find all of this supposed significance in the "numerology" of the pyramids' construction. It is all hindsight ****ysis, which is quite risky.

This is getting off topic, but my recent construction project in hindsight looks like someone built it using the fibonacci series for the various proportions. You can find the whole series in there. You know why? Because we wanted to not have to cut the boards so much. That left us starting with 4x8 sheets and the whole series proceeded to appear after that one fact. Totally coincidental. And then it is also lined up with the sun, (which was deliberate), but also convenient since the whole street was layed out on a North / South and East / West grid. If one looks for answers in a certain way, they usually find a peg to hang their hat on. It is tough to be totally objective.

[David Powell]

I hope this is not a © infringement:

From that article:
"According to Nagyvary, further work is needed to ascertain exactly what went into the chemical treatment. But, he said, his "educated guess" was that it was oxidising minerals that were used to protect against wood-boring beetle larvae."

Further work is needed, means I am running out or grant money??? A little more:

"I assume that either there was a location where the wood was treated, or the solution, a mineral powder, was provided to the craftsmen, and they soaked and boiled their wood in that solution to kill the woodworm and to stop the growth of rotting fungi....."

Assumptions primarily. Not very convincing, but still an interesting theory. And even if there is a difference in the chemical wood content, I am more inclined to believe it was the skill of the carver that made the critical difference. I should boil my bass in these minerals just in cast though. Do you think that will hurt the tone? Maybe I should let the worms chew a bit more first??

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by David Powell

should boil my bass in these minerals just in cast though. Do you think that will hurt the tone? Maybe I should let the worms chew a bit more first??

I've been working on violins, violas, celli and basses for well over 40 years and I've yet to see worm damage in modern instruments. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I will say that it is it is about as likely as you getting hit by a meteor this afternoon.

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I've been working on violins, violas, celli and basses for well over 40 years and I've yet to see worm damage in modern instruments. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I will say that it is it is about as likely as you getting hit by a meteor this afternoon.

That's good to hear. I'm guessing these little lines I'm seeing are something else. They are so small;- hairline but squiggly. I'm thinking since it is in the block areas only that it has something to do with end grain meeting the top plate. Probably seasonal expansion and contraction. Mostly this DB is real stable. I have the strings at about 5 mm on the G going up to about 11 mm for the low B. It only changes about a .5 mm seasonally. I don't even have bridge adjusters on it. I don't know know what I'd use them for. I'm crossing my fingers that it stays that way a few more years.

[David Powell]

This was too amusing not to post, and since I own a Kremona, I'll share it:

"There is an old story that Stradivari and Amati used to buy their wood from the majestic Bulgarian Rodopi Mountains . Part of the secret of the Kremona instruments lies in the acoustic characteristics of the Spruce and Maple woods coming from Bulgarian mountains. "

- from the newly incarnated homepage of the now American company: KremonaUSA

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Good thing I've got a cup of good black coffee to wash that down with.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Greg Clinkingbeard

Good thing I've got a cup of good black coffee to wash that down with.

Guys, we are wasting our time and what a shame being that we are musicians to boot.

There's a Song that actually explains this right in the title!

"Breaking-IN is hard to do".. Ah Duhhhhhh