The 5-String Double Bass

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Several years ago I saw the 2nd one which was a Bob G/Bulgarian Bass. Must have been the older models with the shiny Lacquer finish and low neck stand model. I played only a few notes on it and that was it.

The first one I saw was one of those. Not sure how early it was compared to the one you saw. I think it was built the same year I saw it, 2002. I knew very little at the time, but the fellow who owned it had a good bit of experience, played it in a community orchestra and gave it good reports. Looking at their new web page, the bass appears to have a higher projection than mine even and the nitro is now spirit varnish, purfling similar to the Hofner / Wilfer detail also. And now there are two distinct gamba models.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The 3rd was a Pollmann belonging to the former Principal of the Met. He had the B tuned to a C. For most things this made sense but for octaves like in the Brandenbergs, it needed to be in 4ths down to B for the fingering. This is the Bass I borrowed to see if the 5 was for me at all. I decided I did need one but opted to convert one of my extra Basses instead of buying that one. My Morelli was on the bench at Arnolds and the Peg Box was an inch shorter than the Pollmann so we scrapped the conversion on that Bass and put a fingered Extension on it instead. I used that Bass for a few concerts and then sold the Bass. The new owner played mainly Jazz and took off the Extension.

George Hofer suggested that I put a partial false nut on my bass under the B to raise it to a C. The B string used to behave very oddly when I was trying to tune to the 5th of the E. The partial false nut would not have changed the tension or note location but it would have shifted the harmonics and might have helped because the problem seemed to be resonance related. I thought it had a wolf, but this problem (which was here today and not tomorrow) completely vanished as the bass opened more.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The 5th one that comes to mind in this countdown is the Hofner 5 that I am listing in behalf of Paul Biase Violins, NY. This is a nice Bass for the money and only played it a short time when I took the Pics a few months ago. If I were in the market for one now, I would seriously consider this Bass. It has more normal 3/4 dimensions in Body and String length. For someone needing a 5er, this would be a good buy short of buying an upper end more expensive Bass for regular professional Orchestra use.

That is a very nice looking bass at that price. Tempted to visit PA.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Bridge Arching: What I do usually is slide a pencil or ruler between 3 strings laying it flat on the top of the Bridge surface and look at the height off the the line of the middle string which should measure about 1/4". I do this 2x on a 4-string and 3x on the 5 to check bow clearance on all the inner strings.

Here are some pics I took for a Bow listing I had a few years ago using my 5-string. These pics though not intended to show Bridge arch still gives an idea of what I have. Last week I tweaked the arch slightly once again lowering the B (which raises the E-arch) and lowering both the G and D (which raised the A and kept the relation from the D to the G). I will not be a good judge of my work until I get into rehearsal with the Bass playing the Beeth. 6th which is on my stand for the Summer to work on.

My clearance is definitely less by a bit than the .25 inch guide. And at the FB, if I hold my bow like in your photo, the clearance is dangerously close. I can play it all the way up into thumb position across all five strings, but more clearance would be better. Does your arching at the finger board match the arching at the bridge closely? How much could I increase the arch at the bridge without changing it at the fingerboard as well?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

My clearance is definitely less by a bit than the .25 inch guide. And at the FB, if I hold my bow like in your photo, the clearance is dangerously close. I can play it all the way up into thumb position across all five strings, but more clearance would be better. Does your arching at the finger board match the arching at the bridge closely? How much could I increase the arch at the bridge without changing it at the fingerboard as well?

Ok, I just measured it rather than only eyeballing it. The clearance at both the Bridge and FB inside each 3-strings is actually only 4mm or so and not 1/4". The 1/4" is my regular clearance on a 4-string or about 5-6mm.

When you play a 5er, you have to keep the Bow steady so as not to bump the neighboring Strings. Also, make sure your 'draw' the string rather than press down with the Bow. Finally, when playing up the neck into thumb position, the Bow should also move down towards the Bridge as you get closer to the end of the FB for a cleaner sound.

So, I am using 4mm clearance with about 1" spacing (25mm +/-) at the end of the FB. The Nut is spaced 7/16-15/32 string to string and the spacing at the end of the FB (high C on the G) is about 23mm (+/-).

I would also like to point out that for about 15 years I played a 7/8ths high shouldered 18th century Italian Bass with about a 23.5mm Bridge Spacing so I am not new to tight spaced Strings or tight Bowing. Having a beautiful Sartory all that time didn't hurt either..lol

[Ken Smith]

Some 5s in Germany from my friend Sven-Henrik Gawron. The first Bass, a Rubner is very similar to Anselm's Bass.

Like Anselm's?; http://www.vektor-bass.de/rubner1957.htm




and this beauty as well; http://www.vektor-bass.de/bohem_5s.htm

[David Powell]

I must get a digital camera. But these come with shutter lag and timing is everything to me. So I'm still digital image challenged as one might say. I promise to have one by this week-end so we can compare bridge set-ups. As far as bowing goes, it is pretty much like you describe because as little clearance as I have there is no other way. Up in thumb land I bow about 2/3 down from the FB to the bridge. On the G, D, and A it is better, but E and B are really tight. I'm getting to know some cool double stops up there though.

From what I can tell (mostly from photos) there are two schools of thought on the part of the makers of 5-ers, at least with the arch of the fingerboard. One borders on being violone-ish with a flatter arch and the other one has a really high round arch. Mine is the first kind. That Chris was the 2nd. My Kremona model is now called a Rubner (I suppose after the famed Markneukirchen Josef Rubner) to distinguish it from a new model recently introduced.

A fellow over on TB just posted about an actual 5-string Rubner (don't know if that is Josef or Johannes) he got to check out for few strokes. I told him to come over here. He didn't have photos though. That Bohemian flatback is sweet! Is Paul W. around or is he, um, busy?

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by David Powell

Is Paul W. around or is he, um, busy?

Im right here.

[David Powell]

This one is a real beauty and I thought since we are obsessing over the devilsome issue of bowing a five string (pizz just seems pretty normal), I thought we should consider the difficulties in getting a good arco set-up on this one.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

This one is a real beauty and I thought since we are obsessing over the devilsome issue of bowing a five string (pizz just seems pretty normal), I thought we should consider the difficulties in getting a good arco set-up on this one.

Looks like a '70s Pollmann but in a 6! The one 5er I borrowed was a big Gamba Busetto with a 41 1/4' String Length and fully decorated with Carvings but without the Rosette in the Top. This Bass must be for either a Jazz player or a soloist. I would love to see someone play that next to me in an Orchestra Rehearsal. The Double Stops will tell me when he's having trouble...lol