The Bass in Fifths

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I heard Toronto bassist Andrew Downing last week in a small club. He played a german/czech bass tuned in fifths. He played solidly, at a variety of speeds, in tune all the way. Great player.

I don't understand how intonation should be any more of a problem than tuned in fourths? surely it depends what you are trying to play. In fifths, you play 10ths across three strings in the shape we would normally play octaves. In fact, probably a better way to get an in-tune 10th than spanning 4 strings like we do?

I can see 10ths for Jazz playing but the Bow doesn't bend that way..lol

Try playing some of the Beethoven parts or even Mozart. At that point you are working twice as hard as the Cellos. Longer and thicker strings with a bigger body and heavier bow. Jumping octaves with the Bow would actually be more awkward I think especially for the left hand.

In Jazz, you can play any note you like moving the line around. In Classical, you can't. It is 'Jail' as far as that is concerned. A Bass tuned in 5ths to Low C is just another method of avoiding playing a 5-string Bass. I think!

[Ken Smith]

I just pulled up a page from Joel Quarrington's website. Have a look at it and lets talk about this some more.

Currently as of an hour ago, I have two Basses in the shop tuned in 5ths using the regular strings for experimental purposes only. They are my Batchelder with Superflexibles and a Corsini with Helicore Orchestra Strings.

[Ken Smith]

I just emailed Joel and then found his FAQs which answer some of my questions..oops!

[Jeff Moote]

I have read through Joel's site extensively. For more thoughts from pros using fifths tuning, check out:
http://www.silviodallatorre.com/
http://www.dennismasuzzo.com/

Masuzzo has a method book out (one of, if not the first for fifths tuned bass) which I'm told is great but fairly elementary. Joel is working on one which he tells me is close to being ready.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Currently as of an hour ago, I have two Basses in the shop tuned in 5ths using the regular strings for experimental purposes only. They are my Batchelder with Superflexibles and a Corsini with Helicore Orchestra Strings.

Just curious, did you tune the E down to C or put a different string on? G up to A can work but is really tight, and A down to G is usually not too floppy.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

I have read through Joel's site extensively. For more thoughts from pros using fifths tuning, check out:
http://www.silviodallatorre.com/
http://www.dennismasuzzo.com/

Masuzzo has a method book out (one of, if not the first for fifths tuned bass) which I'm told is great but fairly elementary. Joel is working on one which he tells me is close to being ready.

Just curious, did you tune the E down to C or put a different string on? G up to A can work but is really tight, and A down to G is usually not too floppy.

I tuned the regular Strings Up and Down as needed to be in Fifths, Low C to High A. That 'party' is now OVER for good for me... Both Basses have been tuned back to normal 4ths.

I have played in 4ths for 42 years. I have 4-string Basses with and without GREAT working C-extensions and I have a 5-string Bass that plays easily and has a Huge sound. Probably my loudest Bass presently.

For me, it's 'fourths' all the way with or without an Ext. or 5er.

By the way, many players have worked their entire life in a professional Orchestra with only a regular 4-string, no Ext.!

'Old dog, NO tricks..

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

I have read through Joel's site extensively. For more thoughts from pros using fifths tuning, check out:
http://www.silviodallatorre.com/
http://www.dennismasuzzo.com/

Masuzzo has a method book out (one of, if not the first for fifths tuned bass) which I'm told is great but fairly elementary. Joel is working on one which he tells me is close to being ready.

Just curious, did you tune the E down to C or put a different string on? G up to A can work but is really tight, and A down to G is usually not too floppy.

Is Dalla Torre also tuning his Orchestra bass, (the Grancino?) in 5ths as well?

[Jeff Moote]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I just heard back from Joel. Super nice guy.

He sure is. He wrote me back very promptly as well and invited me to a masterclass he's giving in August. Unfortunately the registration deadline is passed, tuition is reasonable but money I don't have, and I probably couldn't get the day off work anyway.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Is Dalla Torre also tuning his Orchestra bass, (the Grancino?) in 5ths as well?

I'm really not sure as I'm not particularly familiar with him actually - just his website which I find gives a nice overview of the different tunings for someone who doesn't know the history of the instrument (i.e. trying to explain it to your friends who play cello or violin etc.)

This 5ths thing is something serious to look at but it is not a casual one at all.!

That's for sure! I'm glad though that you've taken a look at it and read what people like Joel have to say. I think everyone should at least know about this tuning, even if it remains that 99% play in fourths. I think though that at or near the beginning of one's education is a great time to start with fifths since there isn't too much to "un-learn" in terms of repertoire.

So reading about you taking your std tuning set up and down to achieve a crude CGDA tuning, I did this just for a few minutes tonight so that I could see how both sight reading and reading a familiar piece went. Not too bad I found... I played the tricky spots from the Trout quintet which I'm preparing for a performance in a couple weeks. There was indeed a little more shifting, but mostly short ones that could be pivots. Not too many bad notes Sight reading was not quite as great, but better than expected, so I'm really feeling good about the reading part of re-learning anyway. All that's left is to find a good teacher and the right set of strings (I think I'll go with Joel's preferred Dominants with Spiro low C, at least at first).

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I just emailed Joel and then found his FAQs which answer some of my questions..oops!

I just heard back from Joel. Super nice guy. His email was at least as long if not longer than the one I sent him. I will stay in touch with him as he is writing a 5ths method currently. I will also learn more about his re-learning process in 5ths over time but I don't wanna bug him too much as he's a busy guy in great demand. I am thankful enough he replied at all. I was not expecting it so soon and not as much info either. We even discussed his Bass a little and talked about some of mine as well. A real down to earth guy from what I can tell.

This 5ths thing is something serious to look at but it is not a casual one at all.!