Endpin talk...

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I am wondering why they can't use the regular Endpin socket rather than drilling a second hole in the Block for the tilted unit. Also, how is it different to use a bent Endpin or just tilt the Bass with a regular Endpin.

You can use the regular pin socket to attach an egg pin which simulates the Laborie without the second hole. It's a fairly heavy device that goes on and off the bass for travel. Hans Sturm, who produced Rabbath's "Art of the Bow" video uses the egg pin with his older Italian bass as he didn't want to have a hole drilled in it. I used the egg pin to experiment with the angled pin concept before I had a hole drilled. I suppose you could also bend a pin to simulate the position of the laborie pin. Holding it firmly in the socket so it doesn't twist might be a challenge. I like the convenience of the Laborie pin. I don't think my basses sound different with it than with the egg pin.

I also used a 45º bent pin in my normal socket for a while. It changed the balance of the bass a bit, causing it to fall in towards my body at a more open angle, but didn't have the dramatic effect of the Laborie pin with the drilled hole.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I also want to point out that sound may differ as well regardless of the Endpin type or extension depending on the surface you are playing on.

Some years ago I was doing a recording session, jazz quartet, and the engineer just couldn't come up with a good bass sound, he must have spent an hour at this. He had me set up in a carpeted booth. I finally took the bass out of the room, played a few notes on a hardwood floor, and that was it. From that point on, I always ask for a piece of plywood to set the bass on if there is carpeting. The carpet seemed to suck up the percussive attack of the instrument. Hard surfaces seem to emphasize it, what I want in jazz playing, at least.

[Charles Federle]

One thing I forgot to mention is that when I tried the experiment with my friend's bass we tried the same thing with mine. For my bass it did not make as dramatic of a difference as his. Might of had to do with mine being shorter (only about 18 inches), hollow like the carbon fiber rod, and perhaps because it was much lighter then his.

I do think it is important though being able to stick the endpin into the floor. Granted some places more then others. One concert hall I play in they have boxes for each player, similar to that a cello soloist might use, even has a bass bar in the box right about where you would put your end pin. These boxes make a huge difference especially when playing on the extension.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Charles Federle

One thing I forgot to mention is that when I tried the experiment with my friend's bass we tried the same thing with mine. For my bass it did not make as dramatic of a difference as his. Might of had to do with mine being shorter (only about 18 inches), hollow like the carbon fiber rod, and perhaps because it was much lighter then his.

I do think it is important though being able to stick the endpin into the floor. Granted some places more then others. One concert hall I play in they have boxes for each player, similar to that a cello soloist might use, even has a bass bar in the box right about where you would put your end pin. These boxes make a huge difference especially when playing on the extension.

The Carbon Fiber Rods I have are all Solid. I have had Aluminum Rods Hollow that were painted Black but all the CF Rods I have seen are solid.

[Charles Federle]

The one we used was a bit of an odd ball. I think it came from Bob's house of bass. I remember it being hollow because we were so worried about crushing it with his thumbscrew, my current aluminum endpin though is hollow.

I am about to try a solid CF rod on my bass. Found just finding a piece of 10mm carbon fiber is much cheaper then something that is an endpin rod depending on the results I might try something wooden next. Any suggestions on what kind of wood might be the best ? Right now I am think either a strong maple or maybe lignum vitae (if I can find it).

[davidseidel]

Wondering as Ken asks what difference there may be between tilting the bass with a straight pin as compared to the Laborie angled one? Also with the new hardwood ones are they adjustable length? Could they be installed straight if one wanted to? Lots of questions as I have never tried an angled pin but interested in what its like and very interested in using a wooden one such as this either way. Also with the Laborie pin how does it work if one is sitting to play? I mostly stand out of choice myself but sometimes in orchestra work of course sitting may be the norm. drilling the block does seem a bit extreme especially in an old valuable instrument but if it works .......

[Ken Smith]

You are not just drilling the Block. You are putting a hole in the Rib as well!

On the restorations I have had recently, many of the Basses needed a new Block and these only had one hole in it. Out of 8 Basses opened up, 4 or 5 needed a new Block (I don't recall if the Gilkes was replaced or trimmed as it looks old but not as old as the neck block).

I can't imagine how a Block will last with two holes being drilled. I have only seen a few Basses with a separate Tailwire Socket and separate Endpin so I can't say for sure if this weakens the Block over time but using either Endpin over time is double duty on the Block itself.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by davidseidel

Wondering as Ken asks what difference there may be between tilting the bass with a straight pin as compared to the Laborie angled one? Also with the Laborie pin how does it work if one is sitting to play?

It's all about the balance. When I tilt my bass back on its straight endpin, it falls to the left if I don't hold it with my left hand. With the angled hole, the bass more or less stays back without falling. It takes some practice to find the balance point but when you do, you find you don't have to hold the instrument up with your hand, freeing it up.

When sitting, I don't know how critical the angled hole is as I can position the bass in a more open cello-like position with the normal endpin. You would probably need a shorter Laborie pin for sitting depending upon the height of the stool.

[Ken Smith]

What are you guys playing that all of a sudden a regular endpin is not good enough 150 years after Dragonetti?